The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

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WTF
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by WTF » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:32 am

OK, I admit that it probably had to be like this text and imagewise to bring over the idea behind the whole thing, still I would have liked te artwork to be a bit better and the text more structured (but it's only my view on things). I don't count the scenery where she shows Hisao the scars as part of the adult content and it was fucking amazing at first I even was really shocked at her facial-expression in combination of the scaring on her body. Having gone trough the Hanako-path with adult contents on I surely won't miss anything when reading trough it again (I however won't read the other storylines with AC turned off), and I don't think that if the evening ends with them kissing and suggesting that they will sleep together will take of a lot of the storry. You still can imagine what happened while reading the folowing scenes at the class-room/the park.

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OmegaChosen
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by OmegaChosen » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:15 am

Man, what to say about this game. Good things of course but it's the personal journey that I enjoyed. Going down Hanako's path was a bit strange for me at first to be honest, mainly because some things in real life were distracting me. Still, after a few hours I really began to get into the mindset of Hisao and forget out RL, at least as long as I focused on Hanako. Warning: Big ol' block of texts going over my thought process of the route. Skip to end for TL;DR.

My focus on Hanako was very much similar to Hisao's, on her "broken bird" qualities and our desire to protect her from any harm. It was quite literally all I and Hisao were focusing on as he struggled to find a way to help her during her birthday crisis. It wasn't until Hisao called up Lilly and the subsequent conversation and choice that made me realize what we were doing in the process our "white knighting": we were trying to forget his own ordeals and problems by focusing on Hanako's, treating her very much like a child incapable of caring for herself rather than someone he respected and cared for at the same time. We were obsessed with being her protector, forgetting anything else in his life in our desperate need to "help" and "protect" Hanako.

Staring at those two options that Lilly gave me I realized that this was a major turning point that would define what would happen and I couldn't tell what was the right answer. On one hand, agreeing with Lilly seemed like the right choice: Hisao had been neglecting himself and focusing solely Hanako, trying to be a knight that was always there for her. But he couldn't always be that and would it be right to do so? Living as some protector guarding Hanako, never looking towards any other fate but to be a shield? But would leaving her alone really help her? Everyone else had been doing that from what Lilly and the others had said and Hanako wasn't really any better.

Choosing to ignore Lilly seemed it might be the right choice too. Not doing anything was what everyone else did. They all seemed to ignore her except for Lilly; how could that possibly be the right answer? Hisao wanted to be there for her, she was in crisis now and how could he just sit there and do nothing? Really, from Hisao's standpoint, Hanako never seemed to have gotten better until we had made an effort to get closer and draw her out of her shell some. Wasn't that proof that Lilly might be wrong?

But...I realized that was just an excuse. Protecting her, shielding her, everything was focused on her. The conversations from before popped into my mind: what are you going to do with your life? What are your plans? Hisao had been so focused on Hanako he never really gave any thought to that and neither had I. He was living in the moment and focusing on a single person rather himself and the future. It was easy for me to have Hisao do it too; though I had put myself in his shoes, I still wasn't him. His life wasn't mine thus I could put it by the wayside without really losing anything. But life isn't like that. What at first seemed selfish, forgetting about Hanako's problems and instead focusing on Hisao's own life, seemed cruel but was it right to forsake Hisao for Hanako in the process? No, I decided. Perhaps in another visual novel ignoring Lilly might have been the right choice, helping the shy girl out of her shell like only the protagonist could and getting a happily ever after, but from what I had seen so far of the game, this wasn't a generic visual novel by any means. Thus, I heeded Lilly's advice.

It was really here that I began to see Hisao's feelings for Hanako truly reveal themselves. After spending a few days focusing on his studies instead of Hanako, Hisao realized to some extent that he didn't just want to be a protector. He wanted a deeper relationship but he knew so little about this girl. He wanted to know more, to foster that relationship into something deeper. Then Hanako taking Hisao to her room and the subsequent sex scene. To be honest, it got a bit awkward for me to watch, especially with the subsequent drifting apart the next day. This wasn't some culmination of love, at least not in the fairy tale sense, but was something...different. Much like Hisao, I worried whether he had somehow subconsciously/accidentally coerced Hanako into the act.

The scene in the park was beautiful. It was really well done, especially as I realized just as Hisao did that I truly had been treating her like a "broken person". Rather than focusing on her physical scars, I had thought like Hisao I was treating her like a normal person when really I had only been focusing on her emotional scars instead. Much like Hisao I contemplated on fostering a deeper relationship but hesitated, wondering whether she could "take" such a relationship if Hisao brought it up. Even if she was receptive, I wondered whether it would only be because she was so isolated and thus she would have grabbed onto any person that had treated her as such. The park scene made me realize that such beliefs were beyond idiotic and I was perhaps even more so for having realized it so late. All those little scenes with Hanako coming out of her shell before showed a person stronger than I gave her credit for and to believe that she would only reciprocate romantic feelings because he was just there was hypocritical of both me and Hisao. Because as we both realized, Hisao's feeling ran deeper than just someone who needed to protect this "fragile little girl"; he cared about her as a person and friend. He wanted to be there for her but not because he needed to protect someone but because she was precious to him and, as he realized, he loved her as she loved him as well. He would be there if she needed him but he wouldn't be a knight or shield. Because she was stronger than that. And if he ever needed someone to lean on, he knew that Hanako would be there for him too. Not a knight and a damsel but two people walking side by side.

And with that final kiss came an end to this part of Hanako's and Hisao's story. An ending but also a beginning to something they both wanted. There are probably more hardships in store for them. Dark times and goods times all the same. Though we won't see those moments, no matter how much we may want to, that smile on Hanako's face and that happy little chime at the end makes me hopeful, nay, assured that they'll both be alright.


TL;DR: Hanako's route is the bomb-diggity.

So, bravo KS dev team. You've created something that exceeded my high expectations of this visual novel. I feel glad to have been able to see your vision for Katawa Shoujo and that the emotion and work you put into this shined through so brilliantly.

Course, now I'm finding it hard to start on any of the other girls' paths. Though after learning that Hanako gets on just fine on Lilly's route without Hisao being there I've come to realize it's less about making sure Hanako is not alone and more that I feel like I'm more entranced by Hanako's route than the others. : P
Last edited by OmegaChosen on Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:47 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Deltamon
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Deltamon » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:01 am

After reading some things like the post above me.. I started to realize, that I have very different style of approach towards the story of Hanako.. Since I personally wished for Hisao to aim to have a proper relationship with Hanako to begin with, instead of being her knight in shining armor. I never thought that Hanako needed really that much protecting from the start, more like she needed someone to truly love her as a person who she is, cute, shy, good natured and competitive when it comes to the games where she can be equal with her friends, without anyone focusing on her all the time, but the game instead. I really always thought that Hisao should've noticed that part of Hanako earlier, instead of worrying how hurt and lonely she might feel all the time.

What Hanako really needs, is good company that doesn't judge her for her scars, and that enjoys her company just the way that she is.. Which is quite obvious from the fact that she gets by quite fine if you play Lilly's path (from what I understood, haven't played it yet, but have been reading stuff about it).
Hanako = Shizune = Rin = Lilly = Emi
I just don't like categorizing people. Even if Hanako will always be the dearest for me, I still prefer if they all get equal share of love.

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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by clyspe » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:37 pm

Disclaimer: Hanako path was my favorite by far and she's the second best character in the game. That said, the artists made a hugely fatal flaw. Most of the high quality drawings that accompany a major moment (dunno what to call them exactly) always show Hanako at profile, with her scars hidden. WAT. Something that made the path so beautiful to me was that he realized those scars are part of what makes her beautiful, that and the scars' implications.

Probably the happiest I've ever been, however, was when Aria de l'Etoile kicks in and Hanako is clutching her new doll. I probably left that up on the screen for like a half hour haha.

Walpurgisnacht

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Walpurgisnacht » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:55 pm

I don't have the heart to replay the game on a different route, I can't possibly bring myself to abandon her. I will always be there for her, just to see her smile, to tell her that its going to be alright and that she isn't alone anymore. :cry:

It was a great game, and I will treasure its memories for the rest of my life.

crover
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by crover » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:20 pm

I have to say this even my english is bad....but i have to, otherwise i can't play another path.

after finish hanako path for 2 days...i simply can't describe how perfectly beautiful of hanako end.
love isn't about man and woman, it's not how much you care for your soul mate, and it's not how much you try to understand the other people feelings.
But it is to trust,....in that moment when lily's called, i almost feel my heart try to burst out from my chest, what to do?...what choice do i have?..keep believes that hisao can keep protect her from this point on to the future
or simply just accept that she need to understand other people feelings for her?.......but in the end....

I Choose to trust in lilly...and in her self....when lilly said 'she stronger than you think' something told me in that moment that this is the right answer... in that hour of pain that she had to be alone in her birthday
was not only painful to her but to hisao him self too. but hisao have fate in both lilly and hanako as friends and someone who he will always be there for her not just protector but as in life-partner.

and that final kiss........our heart are all disable in some ways.We can't hide it or ignore it.
heal it alone in the dark only make the wound deeper, scars that show that how much pain you try to hide it from others
in the end all you need is not to hide but to trust that you can overcome it, Trust in someone that his or her heart are disable and accept it.

that's the only was your heart is completely heal.

VSOP

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by VSOP » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:43 pm

Okay, so I've finished the route. That was a pretty beautiful ending, though I thought I'd cry and find it as soul destroying as I've found KEY VNs like Clannad. Welp.

Aside from that, I'm missing a scene. It's after Hisao's phone call to Lilly about Hanako locking herself in her room. After doing both options, I still have the one directly below Faraway Prescence to unlock. I've seen a CG of Hanako screaming at Hisao to get out of her room, though I'm not sure where this is. What points are essential to triggering this event? Cheers.

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Exterminator 2000
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Exterminator 2000 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:03 pm

VSOP wrote:Aside from that, I'm missing a scene. It's after Hisao's phone call to Lilly about Hanako locking herself in her room. After doing both options, I still have the one directly below Faraway Prescence to unlock. I've seen a CG of Hanako screaming at Hisao to get out of her room, though I'm not sure where this is. What points are essential to triggering this event? Cheers.
Was the same for me, and I also heard about that scene beforehand. You need to go back at least one more decision and make sure it's the "wrong" one (I believe it is going to the dorm instead of taking Hanako to the city). That should make sure you have enough "negative" points to trigger that scene when you decide to go visit her after Lilly's phone call.
"One guy. Two girls. In a dorm room. With a tea set.
Sounds pretty dodgy when I phrase it like that."
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"The point of no return was 1000 miles ago."
---
"What's the name of that feeling in your heart, that the world is going to be alright?"

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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Yubiseiharukana » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:14 pm

It may have already been posted here (if this is even the right place to post it), but I'm too lazy to read all 100+ prior posts to make sure. While going through Hanako's images in the gallery I notice that the image where Hanako receives her birthday presents has two parts, but I only have the first one. Is the second obtainable in Hanako's path, or is it through another character's path?
"A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing."
- Emo Philips

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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Lolz2day » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:20 pm

Went through all the routes and I realized that Hisao really needs advice especially in the Emi and Hanako route. Also is there a significance in the muffin shop window in the last CG in the good end?

Walpurgisnacht

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Walpurgisnacht » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:30 pm

Extremist_Line wrote:Ok well, after reading through this thread again and using my derpy head for a while...I get it. I understand the h-scene and the implications and meaning of it now. I understand that she thought it would deepen their relationship and help him to see her as something other than an object to protect. See, the problem with a guy like me is that I'm an optimistic romantic. So to me, it feels wrong to have sex unless both parties love each other and have known each other for long enough. Understanding the process of the h-scene, the ending feels a lot better to me. I still think it's abrupt but I feel better. Still, I really don't think I can bring myself to get the bad and neutral ends...DAMN YOU COMPLETIONIST IMPULSES!

Well I'll go and finish Lilly's route first. But for now I can thankfully stop losing sleep (literally) over this.

Also totally random but me and a friend who were playing through simultaneously noticed...she didn't bleed during the h-scene. Is it like that for all the routes? Did the devs just not want to gross anyone out or what?
I didn't know there was a bad or neutral ending, either way I don't want to know what they are lol. I just decided to be myself and I got the good ending :D

Guest

Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Guest » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:57 pm

VSOP wrote:Okay, so I've finished the route. That was a pretty beautiful ending, though I thought I'd cry and find it as soul destroying as I've found KEY VNs like Clannad. Welp.

Aside from that, I'm missing a scene. It's after Hisao's phone call to Lilly about Hanako locking herself in her room. After doing both options, I still have the one directly below Faraway Prescence to unlock. I've seen a CG of Hanako screaming at Hisao to get out of her room, though I'm not sure where this is. What points are essential to triggering this event? Cheers.
They reuse the art although a little bit is different in Lilly's path

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Exterminator 2000
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by Exterminator 2000 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:01 pm

Walpurgisnacht wrote:I didn't know there was a bad or neutral ending, either way I don't want to know what they are lol. I just decided to be myself and I got the good ending :D
Well, they're actually not that 'bad', especially compared to other VNs. In case you want to know, the neutral ending has everyone continuing their lives as is - that means, Hanako and Hisao staying friends, nothing more (with Hisao occasionally playing the white knight). The bad end happens when Hisao tries forcing Hanako during her birthday to do something, go outside, etc. even when she refuses to. This leads to her kicking Hisao out of her room, effectively ending any relationship they had.
"One guy. Two girls. In a dorm room. With a tea set.
Sounds pretty dodgy when I phrase it like that."
---
"The point of no return was 1000 miles ago."
---
"What's the name of that feeling in your heart, that the world is going to be alright?"

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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by zeroyuki92 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:22 pm

Initially, I had no idea in which route I should aim first, so I naturally pick Hanako since I guess her route is the "safest" way to start reading KS.

And then, my personal comment after around 6 -7 hours of playing :

1. I got the good ending, since the bad ending is pretty obvious to avoid and the normal ending actually can be avoided if you can catch the real problems between Hisao and Hanako...The white knight tendency. I load in a certain state to obtain the rest of endings, though.
2. What surprised me is way they tackle the issues. Even the H-scene (which initially was turned off, but I quickly tracked back and turned it on once I realized that some story was left out if I skipped the scene) were unconventionally awesome. They decision to make the scene intentionally awkward and made it to be the final build-up for the problems really shows a good realism and variety of effect for what H-scene could add into the story of Visual Novels.
3. My only complain here is the strange pacing. I believe this route has some potential to be more dramatic, since the curve between certain flows in the game aren't polished very well. The best "twist" that I could find is the scene in the classroom where Hanako suddenly can't cope with the sudden attentions and cry. For me, the rest of route weren't surprising enough to be called "emotional roller coaster", nor depressing/happy/bursting enough to make me cry. In exchange, they craft the route to be pretty realistic and thought-provoking, which is actually a not-bad trade.
4. That said, I guess the writer successfully delivers the message that was intended, and leaving pretty good amount of happiness and calming for me. Although I guess they have more potentials to bring more impact, for example like in the "revelation scene" (the scene in the park), I guess I am generally satisfied by this route, despite of my pretty high standard for visual novel nowadays.

Now, let's see what they can do in other routes. I believe you should also try to play other routes, guys (since I see some people that felt like won't tackle any other routes here). I believe Hanako is independent enough to stand by herself , like we did for Hanako in her true ending...And try to see other characters from different perspectives :p

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tyren
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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

Post by tyren » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:28 pm

Brogurt wrote:
Misterbadguy wrote:What's the decision that prompts the bad ending where she chews Hisao out for being overprotective?
Don't go into town
And then it doesn't matter whether you heed Lilly's advice or not
This annoyed the crap out of me just because of how it was executed. I'm pretty sure I clicked "listen to Lilly" so why does Hisao then proceed to inner-monologue about how much he disagrees with Lilly?

(Yeah, I got the worst ending on my first try by doing this.)

I feel like you should at least get the neutral ending if you don't go to the city but agree with Lilly. At least in that ending he's less overbearing, so it would've made more sense.

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