Lilly's Route

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters

On a scale of 1-5 (5 being the best route and 1 the worst), what would you rate Lilly's route?

5
1452
71%
4
398
19%
3
114
6%
2
34
2%
1
56
3%
 
Total votes: 2054

Nekken

Re: Lilly's Route

Post by Nekken » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:00 am

Lilly's route is what happens when Hanako gets what she says she wants in her bad ending. Although Lilly's and Hisao's friendship enabled Hanako to open up initially, they became too omnipresent and too overprotective of her. In Hanako's path, Lilly figures it out too late to avert disaster: you can prevent the bad ending, but the neutral ending implies that it has only delayed things, and even in the good ending Hanako and Hisao still do something foolish. In Lilly's path, she doesn't have to figure it out: their growing relationship by necessity establishes the distance Hanako needs, allowing her to blossom socially in her own right.

And the hell of it is, seen in this light, Hanako's bad ending was right all along. Hanako's best ending, from her own perspective, isn't even on her path.

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Snelx
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by Snelx » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:18 am

Nekken wrote:Lilly's route is what happens when Hanako gets what she says she wants in her bad ending. Although Lilly's and Hisao's friendship enabled Hanako to open up initially, they became too omnipresent and too overprotective of her. In Hanako's path, Lilly figures it out too late to avert disaster: you can prevent the bad ending, but the neutral ending implies that it has only delayed things, and even in the good ending Hanako and Hisao still do something foolish. In Lilly's path, she doesn't have to figure it out: their growing relationship by necessity establishes the distance Hanako needs, allowing her to blossom socially in her own right.

And the hell of it is, seen in this light, Hanako's bad ending was right all along. Hanako's best ending, from her own perspective, isn't even on her path.
Hmm it is somehow seems like there is still a 'knight-princess' relationship with Hanako's good end.
Although Hisao mentioned it is love, it is like a grey-line to me.

while in Lilly's route, Hanako has become independent herself.
And even plans to go on a trip with her newspaper club friends
The whole idea is quite strange.
the more u are worried about Hanako when she is unstable,
the more she will scream at u to go away. :?

How can u not be worried about her if you are in love when her?
But then she interpret it as they are treating her as broken person, and needs protection.

Part of me feels glad for Hanako in Lilly route,
while another part of me wants to be at her side when she is down, without getting rejected (in Hanako route). :?
It's kinda funny, I've played a bunch of VN's and for the first time I'm feeling apprehensive about going down another path. I'm thinking weird crap like how will Hanako ever be happy if someones not there for her.......
If Hanako's writer reads this I want you to know that I thank you for giving me this wonderful treasure.

- Rykn

華子 - Hanako - 'flower girl'

Handle
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by Handle » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:28 am

I really enjoyed Lilys route, mainly because it focused on Hisao's condition just as much as hers.
It bought the MC aggressively to reality about why he's there each time it happens.
In the other routes, its barely touched on at all, or outright forgotten

shadowbb
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by shadowbb » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:30 am

In Lilly's route, Hisao leaving her food shows to Hanako that they believe she'll get through it (part of why Lilly said Hisao was patient with Hanako to a fault) and still show concern as a friend.

In Hanako's route, Hisao tries to solve Hanako's problem for her without really knowing all that much about it or how she feels about it. In her good ending, she says that she secretly felt that she was useless and viewed much of what Lilly and Hisao did as protection of something extremely fragile.

Well, that's how I interpret it.
**Library 100% complete.**

1. Lilly *Done*
2. Hanako *Done*
3. Emi *Done*
4. Rin *Done*
5. Shizune *Done*

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Snelx
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by Snelx » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:32 am

Handle wrote:I really enjoyed Lilys route, mainly because it focused on Hisao's condition just as much as hers.
It bought the MC aggressively to reality about why he's there each time it happens.
In the other routes, its barely touched on at all, or outright forgotten
yup i do agree.

It is a constant reminder to me that how troublesome and annoying Hisao feels about his condition.
and that, he is not normal, to have a normal relationship going on

shadowbb wrote:In Lilly's route, Hisao leaving her food shows to Hanako that they believe she'll get through it (part of why Lilly said Hisao was patient with Hanako to a fault) and still show concern as a friend.

In Hanako's route, Hisao tries to solve Hanako's problem for her without really knowing all that much about it or how she feels about it. In her good ending, she says that she still, secretly, felt that she was useless and viewed much of what Lilly and Hisao did as protection of something extremely fragile.

Well, that's how I interpret it.
:lol: thats why it is as if the more i want to help her (we would, wouldn't we? if we like a person)
the more she pushes me away..
It's kinda funny, I've played a bunch of VN's and for the first time I'm feeling apprehensive about going down another path. I'm thinking weird crap like how will Hanako ever be happy if someones not there for her.......
If Hanako's writer reads this I want you to know that I thank you for giving me this wonderful treasure.

- Rykn

華子 - Hanako - 'flower girl'

zeroyuki92
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by zeroyuki92 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:11 am

scoopnokes wrote: spoiler explanation > Reason Lilly was leaving in the first place was cause she didn't seem to have anyone left to hold her back to stay here since her sister was leaving who was her onl family for the longest time. Sure she loved Hisao but since if Hisao wasn't fully honest she couldnt' stay jsut for that, but since he was she could stay and be with him. Hanako she felt needed to grow for herself anyways despite Lilly always wanting to be there for her.

if you would like to hear my thoughts on your last drawback about her not developing as much, she develops a whole lot and i stated how in another thread i believe.
Someone already stated this in the forum before :
If the timeline in my head is correct, she confessed to Hisao after knowing that her family had called her to move back to Scotland.

That said, the part of her that haven't really developed for herself is (IMHO, CMIIW) is her unwillingness to open up with her own thoughts and fighting for her own will.
She loved hisao and still confessed although she have to return to Scotland. She didn't want to lose Hisao but never asked Hisao about his own opinion (even after Hisao already know about her plan to scotland) or struggling to prevent it...Instead, she surrendered and waiting (or not) till the last second, resulting in another heart attack for Hisao. She developed, but only in the final minutes (in that aspect), and actually I'm also hoping to hear more of her elaborated thoughts about why and how she cancelled her plan in the last minute (Not that it's not shown at all, but it could be presented more to create more impact, I guess)

Well, maybe it's only a nitpicking habit of mine, but I guess they had a chance to create the route to be even better by actively involving Lilly, at least showing more of her thoughts and actions about the Issue. In retrospect, I guess I underestimated the rule of Akira in Lilly's life, but well...whatever. It's just some afterthoughts.

Her route still ends up to be the best route so far in KS, after all. I love how Suriko (?) wrote this route and shown how Hisao and Lilly's relationship slowly developing, and turned into an awesome romantic feelings.

P.S should I put this into spoiler?

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Snelx
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by Snelx » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:23 am

After finished, i cant help but think why does Hisao need so much time to think of what he true feelings are? :?

though, it is of course a way to heighten the emotional scenes for the writers.
but i feel Hisao should have more than enough time to think and starts to act/ talk face-to-face before Lilly leave the school.
It's kinda funny, I've played a bunch of VN's and for the first time I'm feeling apprehensive about going down another path. I'm thinking weird crap like how will Hanako ever be happy if someones not there for her.......
If Hanako's writer reads this I want you to know that I thank you for giving me this wonderful treasure.

- Rykn

華子 - Hanako - 'flower girl'

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Gravy Boat Gary
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by Gravy Boat Gary » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:32 am

I just need to let it be know, I misread the description for the pole, I rated the route 1 when I meant to rate it 5, Lilly's Route is by far my favourite :D

Krikt
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by Krikt » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:44 am

Nekken wrote:Lilly's route is what happens when Hanako gets what she says she wants in her bad ending. Although Lilly's and Hisao's friendship enabled Hanako to open up initially, they became too omnipresent and too overprotective of her. In Hanako's path, Lilly figures it out too late to avert disaster: you can prevent the bad ending, but the neutral ending implies that it has only delayed things, and even in the good ending Hanako and Hisao still do something foolish. In Lilly's path, she doesn't have to figure it out: their growing relationship by necessity establishes the distance Hanako needs, allowing her to blossom socially in her own right.

And the hell of it is, seen in this light, Hanako's bad ending was right all along. Hanako's best ending, from her own perspective, isn't even on her path.
Hisao being made so shockingly aware of Hanako's worries would allow him to stop treating her as someone so fragile. He only discovers the reason they had sex briefly before the path ends; there's no way he'd continue to stifle her following that. I think ultimately she ends up better on her own path. We can see that their relationship will improve and even if their sexual interaction was somewhat for the wrong reasons, she no longer felt like she had to hide any part of herself.
Snelx wrote:After finished, i cant help but think why does Hisao need so much time to think of what he true feelings are? :?

though, it is of course a way to heighten the emotional scenes for the writers.
but i feel Hisao should have more than enough time to think and starts to act/ talk face-to-face before Lilly leave the school.
I think it due to a slight complacency. The relationship was going so well that he didn't feel the need to explicitly say something to Lilly nor contemplate their status.
It's only when he thinks he's losing everything that he learns to fully appreciate it.
zeroyuki92 wrote:She developed, but only in the final minutes (in that aspect), and actually I'm also hoping to hear more of her elaborated thoughts abot why and how she cancelled her plan in the last minute (Not that it's not shown at all, but it could be presented more to create more impact, I guess)
Wasn't Lilly afraid that Hisao earlier wouldn't return her feelings? Perhaps she was also afraid that he wouldn't share the intensity.
If she made a mistake staying, she would have been abandoning her sister who she lived with for so many years while her parents lived thousands of miles away. Hisao nearly killing himself to find Lilly shows her that she would have been making a mistake leaving him instead.

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Feuver
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by Feuver » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:53 am

The problem with Hisao is that he is pretty dumb in all the arcs.

In Hanako's, He treats Hanako as a child and tries to protect her when clearly she needs time to collect herself and become independent. It's only at the end that he realises that Hanako isn't just a traumatized broken child, but a person that needs real friends, and not parents.

In Emi's He quite literally cannot guess the fact that her father is dead, and even insults her dead father from the grave if you don't make the right choice.

In Lilly's, He keeps pushing her away from his problems, and doesn't ever know how to support her actually.

In Shizune's, He isn't as dumb as in the other arcs, but it's because Shizune's route is pretty forward and doesn't involve him doing much thinking.

In Rin's route, well,he gets the biggest emotional rollercoaster ever, and even doesn't understand himself after a while, going in the mist of depression and how to understand himself.

All in all, Hisao always starts being pretty dumb, but at the end finally decides who he wants to be, and how to please the person he loves. However, his stupidity almost makes him fail all the routes if the player wasn't there to make the choices for him.

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Snelx
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by Snelx » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:03 am

Feuver wrote:The problem with Hisao is that he is pretty dumb in all the arcs.
Nice. That is what i thought too.
He seems that he has no knowledge to handle delicate relationship. :?
It's kinda funny, I've played a bunch of VN's and for the first time I'm feeling apprehensive about going down another path. I'm thinking weird crap like how will Hanako ever be happy if someones not there for her.......
If Hanako's writer reads this I want you to know that I thank you for giving me this wonderful treasure.

- Rykn

華子 - Hanako - 'flower girl'

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Feuver
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by Feuver » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:06 am

sporkaganza wrote:The good ending for Lilly's route is pretty cruel; it's designed to make you think that you've got the bad ending until the last second. Who wrote this route? I want to give them a finger-shake. It kind of makes me wonder what the bad ending is actually like.
It just cuts off sooner. A neutral ending.

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Feuver
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by Feuver » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:08 am

Snelx wrote:
Feuver wrote:The problem with Hisao is that he is pretty dumb in all the arcs.
Nice. That is what i thought too.
He seems that he has no knowledge to handle delicate relationship. :?
I think that's not because he has no knowledge to handle relationship, but more like he has no knowledge of himself at all.

If you want to understand other better, first understand yourself. Hisao doesn't even know what to aim for at the start of the VN. He's just doing class because he has to, and in rin arc, he is depicted as a depressed and sad person that never smiles.

If Hisao already had a goal in life, it would've been easier for him to understand the girl. Especially if you consider Emi's arc, where His teacher gives him a piece of advice that in the end gives him multiple "perspective" of understanding things. If you don't hear that advice, you almost get emi's bad ending

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mtz
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by mtz » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:19 am

Lilly's Route was by far the one that I could consider to be the best written. That being said, it was agonizing.
Her character so closely resembled my ex fiancee, both artistically and personally.
She and I were both altruistic types, putting each other's needs before our own, which ended up ruining us both in the end.
We dealt with long distance, attending universities thousands of miles from our common hometown.
Even on katawa-shoujo.com, the height and weight of Lilly match hers almost exactly, Lilly at 171cm and 59kg, compared to 172cm and 60kg-

Most significant to me, though, was the element of the story about Hisao's planning for the future, including Lilly without a doubt.
This shook me to my core. The way Suriko wrote this into his story makes me sympathize with his pain, because I'm lead to believe that he has been where I have been.
I felt like I was reliving my own experiences, my own pain. Like Hisao, I wasn't given any warning, I wasn't given a choice.
Unlike Hisao, I was not successful in changing her mind, although I woke in a hospital as well, and as Krikt said above, "nearly killing himself"


4LS, Suriko especially, I cannot express how much I respect the work that has gone into this VN. I hate you for bringing my thoughts back to someone I've been trying to forget for a few years, but the ability to do so speaks for itself. I've been extremely depressed for the last two days, in reflection to both this story and my own past, all because of tremendously impressive storytelling, music, and art.

Thank you for this masterpiece.

Respectfully,
mtz

Misfile17
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Re: Lilly's Route

Post by Misfile17 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:54 am

purple haired Katawa Shoujo character wrote:I don't think I've cried so much and so many times over a story.
Same here, It's been one of those experiences I'm never gonna forget, I don't think I've cried or smiled so much in my life xD

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