Gaming Journalism

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Heartlesswithaheart
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by Heartlesswithaheart » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:11 pm

That'd be an awful idea. Instead of having a respectable community and positive criticism, we'd have loads of people trolling and flaming the game because it isn't a mindless mainstream game. Granted, some reviews would be good, but other places would be too busy playing games like Call of Dirt and Cogs of Battle 3.
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Drkstrm
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by Drkstrm » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:29 am

griffon8 wrote:
Drkstrm wrote:
Mercutio wrote:I still want to see Yahtzee from Zero punctuation review KS. :lol:
I doubt there'll be a Zero Punctuation for this. I don't think Yahtzee likes this kind of stuff.
But the whole reason to watch his reviews is for the things he hates…
Not always. Quite a few of the more recent games, he typically likes. Besides, I meant that he actually just doesn't like visual novels, in the same way Nostalgia Critic doesn't like anime. They can talk about the games, but they're extremely limited. NC is restricted because he doesn't watch teh shows, so doesn't know what standard the series is at, and Yahtzee because, and this is what limits every review visual novels, it all comes down to the story and how well it is written. If it's done well, there's not much to talk about.
Jolon wrote:As I recall, he confessed to playing a few visual novels. Combined with the unusually pronounced Australian presence behind KS's development, perhaps he could consider it?

His hands are likely constrained by the fact that it's a job rather than just a hobby, but I think it'd be an amusing thing to see even so.
I haven't heard him confessing to actually playing them, but I do know that he understands visual novels. The ones that have titties.
Yahtzee, in his Monster Hunter Tri review, said, not wrote:I don't think I'll ever understand the Japanese games market. Not the sex games, those I understand. Even the visual novel thing. I don't need more complex gameplay phases between me and titties. It's the visual novels that don't have titties that confuse me. So now we're going to be removing the cream from a cream and dog shit slice.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... Hunter-Tri

They're the first sentences. Hard to miss. Kind of paints a hostile image between him and visual novels...

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griffon8
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by griffon8 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:41 am

Drkstrm wrote:
griffon8 wrote:But the whole reason to watch his reviews is for the things he hates…
Not always. Quite a few of the more recent games, he typically likes. Besides, I meant that he actually just doesn't like visual novels, in the same way Nostalgia Critic doesn't like anime.
Even for things he likes, we watch his reviews for what he hates. :twisted:
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Worthington
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by Worthington » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:25 am

The Kotaku article was done by Leigh Alexander, who is a very respected game critic, essayist, and journalist. She freelances for a lot of sites, and explores the issues of Games and Sexuality (she wrote the book on it, in fact). She does play a lot of Visual Novels, and did a review of Kana on The Escapist (MY GOD, there was such a shitstorm on the forums), so if anyone were to do a review of Katawa Shoujo, it'd be her (she probably will, in any case).
Other than that, Visual Novels are considered too niche to be games, so I doubt any publications would pick it up; there are dedicated VN reviewers aren't there?
Got my feet in the air and my head on the ground.

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Csihar
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by Csihar » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:57 am

Destructoid recently had a small article about KS, and may end up writing a review for it. Nothing we haven't already heard, but personally I never get tired of seeing comments from baffled gamers trying to wrap their minds around the concept (although a surprisingly large number of commenters on that particular post seem to have already played the demo and liked it).
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Mercutio
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by Mercutio » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:22 am

Csihar wrote:Destructoid recently had a small article about KS, and may end up writing a review for it. Nothing we haven't already heard, but personally I never get tired of seeing comments from baffled gamers trying to wrap their minds around the concept (although a surprisingly large number of commenters on that particular post seem to have already played the demo and liked it).
I think it's that way with a lot of people (I know I'm one of them) - they just hear about KS, they go "WTF?" at the concept, but they try it out. then they realize it's got great writing and characters, and they like it. or they realize it's not actually just about sex with disabled girls. whether they like it more or less after that, I don't know. :mrgreen:

thing is, though, for a lot of people, KS isn't what they think of as a game. partly 'cause there's no action or strategy or anything like that, it's just reading and making decisions to make the story go. so most big gaming sites are probably going to ignore it, or post a stupid article that completely misses the point of the game. :roll: but hopefully not all of them will, and we'll get reviews that say things like "you should play this, it's a lot better than you think".
"There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion." - Sir Francis Bacon

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amazing how preference changes now that the game's actually out.
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Shades of Grey
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by Shades of Grey » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:21 am

I agree that the unusual concept of KS does pull in a number of people on the grounds of sheer unusualness. I have also, however, personally seen several people get completely turned off because they thought the premise vulgar. These were people I was sure would have liked the story had they given it a chance, but sadly, the bad stigma won out. Thats why, if the game is to be reviewed, don't go looking for people that will call it a depraved japanese cripple sex game without actually appreciating what it is (Yahtzee, probably). Especially not very popular or mainstream game critics who are very narrow minded, since thats inviting a big shitstorm about gaming depravity. KS is steeped in anime tropes and tendencies (most obviously in its art and premise), which is already a somewhat niche thing. Visual novels are an even more niche subcategory of anime/japanese games. People who dive into KS off the unusualness sell are usually people who already like both anime and (at least) the concept of visual novels. Getting people outside that narrow subcategory into KS must be done more cautiously.

On an unrelated note, is KS a game? Yes, in the strict sense that it is an interactive form of entertainment. "Game" is a very broad term that encompasses the whole gamut of forms of entertainment. It is not a typical game, like an rpg or a shooter, because visual novels in general have only a bare minimum of interactivity. In a strict sense, visual novels are just two steps above a series of word documents with pictures in it, in terms of interactivity. So its wrong to say that KS isn't a game, but thats because the term game is too broad. Most people are really asking if KS is a typical videogame, and it isn't.
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X_Bacon
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by X_Bacon » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:29 pm

Csihar wrote:Destructoid recently had a small article about KS, and may end up writing a review for it. Nothing we haven't already heard, but personally I never get tired of seeing comments from baffled gamers trying to wrap their minds around the concept (although a surprisingly large number of commenters on that particular post seem to have already played the demo and liked it).
And that shows how most game reviewers have little to no experience with this kind of media. They can't even make the distinction between a visual novel and a dating sim.

But I'm a little surprised by the amount of people on the comments that actually played Act1 before dismissing the whole thing as disgusting fap-material.

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DRKO
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by DRKO » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:32 am

When I took up the Act I demo, I had absolutely no clue what in the world the game was about... I remember seeing a link posted somewhere within the depths of the Internet saying something along the lines of it being a good game... So I played through, and thought it to be rather well-done, especially after learning that an assortment of random Internet-people created it from scratch. By that time, the mention of 'sex scenes' had no effect.

Unfortunately, most people are too closed-minded to accept anything slightly out-of-the-norm. So a review by 'mainstream' critics would probably result in some sort of negative response. Like stated before, it is rather a 'niche game.'

Fishpick
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by Fishpick » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:15 am

X_Bacon wrote:
Csihar wrote:Destructoid recently had a small article about KS, and may end up writing a review for it. Nothing we haven't already heard, but personally I never get tired of seeing comments from baffled gamers trying to wrap their minds around the concept (although a surprisingly large number of commenters on that particular post seem to have already played the demo and liked it).
And that shows how most game reviewers have little to no experience with this kind of media. They can't even make the distinction between a visual novel and a dating sim.

But I'm a little surprised by the amount of people on the comments that actually played Act1 before dismissing the whole thing as disgusting fap-material.
Once again, the definition varies from person to person. In a literal sense, it can be considered a dating sim. You do date, and there is an element of choice and immersion involved. Therefore, it is a simulation of a dating environment on some level. I never read the review, so I don't know else he says. All I'm saying is picking at someone based a label is pointless. Everyone defines it differently. I very rarely call KS a visual novel. I call it a game. I'm a gamer first and foremost and it's the term I'm most comfortable using.

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Worthington
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by Worthington » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:31 am

Shades of Grey wrote:Thats why, if the game is to be reviewed, don't go looking for people that will call it a depraved japanese cripple sex game without actually appreciating what it is (Yahtzee, probably)
Yahtzee's actually really good about not dismissing things offhand, he just plays up a lot of things for comedy. If he were to review this, I think he'd be pretty fair with it.
Shades of Grey wrote: On an unrelated note, is KS a game? Yes, in the strict sense that it is an interactive form of entertainment. "Game" is a very broad term that encompasses the whole gamut of forms of entertainment. It is not a typical game, like an rpg or a shooter, because visual novels in general have only a bare minimum of interactivity. In a strict sense, visual novels are just two steps above a series of word documents with pictures in it, in terms of interactivity. So its wrong to say that KS isn't a game, but thats because the term game is too broad. Most people are really asking if KS is a typical videogame, and it isn't.
KS is by definition a "video game", but i'd say it's more in common with just a plain ol' analog game (board games, D&D and the such). It's basically a CYOA novel with pictures and sound, and I wouldn't say CYOA novels are games either.
Got my feet in the air and my head on the ground.

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Shades of Grey
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by Shades of Grey » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:14 am

I am aware that Yahtzee usually does give a fair assessment of a game and that his scathing style of commentary is mostly done for laughs. He does, however, very much dislike certain facets of Japanese pop culture. He has gone on record that he considers Japanese highschool dramas with angsty characters and such to be nightmarish. KS is basically a Japanese highschool drama, and the cripple component basically guarantees a good serving of angst in the future. He has also stated that he does not much understand the appeal of visual novels and generally does not categorize them as proper videogames due to their minimal interactivity.

KS is a videogame under the definition that its a game that is played on an electronic medium. As you said, however, Worthington, it is at the very fringe of the definition of a game, so it really doesn't fall under the category of "typical" videogame.
Light and Dark
Good and Evil
Right and Wrong
taken from afar they blend together
and the world appears
all in shades of grey

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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by JustSaying » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:07 am

Yahtzee is known to like hentai and while he generally doesn't like visual novels he has at least confessed to enjoying Nocturnal Illusion. There's no chance in hell we'll see a ZP of it but it might be mentioned on Fully Ramblomatic or maaaaaaaaybe EP. I wouldn't hold my breath for anything.

TotalBiscuit on the other hand plays pretty much anything so long as the devs of it ask him to.

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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by AnonJohn » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:06 pm

Would be funny to see Totalbiscuit do a "WTF is" about Katawa Shoujo.

Drkstrm
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Re: Gaming Journalism

Post by Drkstrm » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:56 pm

Hey, reckon Yahtzee could actually be pestered into "reviewing" this? While I do really doubt it happening, as I have already said, I reckon that it may actually have a chance above 0.0000000000000000000000000000001% and only because we've hit the traditional lack of releases until mid-January-ish..

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