Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

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What's my disab-username

Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by What's my disab-username » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:26 am

Also, his voice.

Drkstrm
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Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by Drkstrm » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:31 pm

Username is what now? wrote:If Rin is to have any facial hair, it must be that of Ali Al-Saachez, that man knows how to rock the beard and 'tee.
I take your Ali Al-Saachez and raise you a Wayne Static. He rocks hair like no other.

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blackrising
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Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by blackrising » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:09 pm

Funny how I love the girls personalities and everything, but if they were guys, they probably wouldn't interest me too much. I guess I'm just the kind of gal who goes for the older, grumpy gentleman nobody likes, so none of them would be my cup of tea.
Or I'm just too gay for my own good.
Misha worshipper to the core. WAHAHAHA~

Misha>Rin=Hanako=Lilly>>Shizune>Emi

Since I was no bigger than a weavil they've been saying I was evil
That if "bad" was a boot that I'd fit it
That I'm a wicked young lady, but I've been trying hard lately
O fuck it! I'm a monster! I admit it!

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Shades of Grey
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Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by Shades of Grey » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:42 am

For lack of anything better to do today, I decided to join in the genderswapping. Not the best, but turned out ok. If I stop being lazy, I might add color at some point.

Emi
Image

Hanako, Lilly, Shizune, Misha
Image

I didn't do Rin because I was not really sure how I wanted to draw him/her.
Emi is basically an energetic and cheerful sports boy. I didn't really play up a shota aspect since modern Emi isn't really a loli anymore.
Hanako is a girly, small and quiet bookworm. Also, his head feels too big, oh well.
Lilly is more of a refined gentleman. Not as forward and showy as a prince, but more quiet and subdued. I get a victorian england image.
Shizune is about the same. I even copied her site description pose because it seems to fit so well.
Misha is a generally friendly and loud person. Sort of a bro to everyone. No fro though, I just don't draw fros.

edit: I would put this on the shimmie, but I haven't the foggiest idea how.
Light and Dark
Good and Evil
Right and Wrong
taken from afar they blend together
and the world appears
all in shades of grey

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G3n0c1de
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Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by G3n0c1de » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:06 am

Shades of Grey wrote:I would put this on the shimmie, but I ha ven't the foggiest idea how.

Only the devs and special people have access to the shimmie.
It's a good thing Shizune is deaf, she is the only one who can stand (not) hearing "Wahaha~!" over and over.

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Shades of Grey
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Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by Shades of Grey » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:13 am

Ah, I see. I remember hearing something about that now. Oh well.
Light and Dark
Good and Evil
Right and Wrong
taken from afar they blend together
and the world appears
all in shades of grey

moonpalace
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Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by moonpalace » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:49 am

blackrising wrote:Funny how I love the girls personalities and everything, but if they were guys, they probably wouldn't interest me too much... Or I'm just too gay for my own good.
I don't think it's just that. I think you can't genderbend the girls successfully, no matter how lovely art of them can look. We all know and love the girls from Act 1 as who they are and it wouldn't work at all (for us at least) to change them like that. Also I believe what one poster said earlier about guys being boring in these games is true.

When I consider the idea of making a Katawa Shounen with original shounen, the colossal amount of work required to craft Act 1 v.5, let alone the rest of the game, really sinks in. That's why as interested as I would be to see a spin-off and as much potential as there may be in it, I don't expect KS2 to come around anytime soon.

That said, I have a few ideas for it...

Oh yeah I also really like what you did with Emi and Misha.
Last edited by moonpalace on Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Username is what now?

Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by Username is what now? » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:54 am

Shades of Grey wrote:
Emi
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4679/memir.jpg

Hanako, Lilly, Shizune, Misha
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7870/m ... ymisha.jpg

I didn't do Rin because I was not really sure how I wanted to draw him/her.
Emi is basically an energetic and cheerful sports boy. I didn't really play up a shota aspect since modern Emi isn't really a loli anymore.
Hanako is a girly, small and quiet bookworm. Also, his head feels too big, oh well.
Lilly is more of a refined gentleman. Not as forward and showy as a prince, but more quiet and subdued. I get a victorian england image.
Shizune is about the same. I even copied her site description pose because it seems to fit so well.
Misha is a generally friendly and loud person. Sort of a bro to everyone. No fro though, I just don't draw fros.
Emi with a ponytail is exactly how I imagined s/he would look like, so kudos! Also Misha has Giorno hair <3
Last edited by Silentcook on Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: DON'T quote images that were just posted, people...

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griffon8
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Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by griffon8 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:56 pm

blackrising wrote:Or I'm just too gay for my own good.
I understand the individual words, but together…

Does not compute. :P
I found out about Katawa Shoujo through the forums of Misfile. There, I am the editor of Misfiled Dreams.

Completed: 100%, including bonus picture. Shizune>Emi>Lilly>Hanako>Rin

Griffon8's Writing

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Shades of Grey
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Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by Shades of Grey » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:03 pm

Thank you to the people who appreciate my doodles.
moonpalace wrote:I don't think it's just that. I think you can't genderbend the girls successfully, no matter how lovely art of them can look. We all know and love the girls from Act 1 as who they are and it wouldn't work at all (for us at least) to change them like that. Also I believe what one poster said earlier about guys being boring in these games is true.

When I consider the idea of making a Katawa Shounen with original shounen, the colossal amount of work required to craft Act 1 v.5, let alone the rest of the game, really sinks in. That's why as interested as I would be to see a spin-off and as much potential as there may be in it, I don't expect KS2 to come around anytime soon.
I don't know if that is entirely true. I would personally probably play a genderswapped KS any day, given that the writing was still of good quality and the characters were still enjoyably unique. Perhaps I am weird like that. That said, I don't see why it would be impossible to genderswap the cast. Most every character's personality traits and behaviors are not associated heavily with their gender. Off the top of my head, the only two that might behave notably different would be Emi and Kenji. Thats because Emi has a habit of acting stereotypically "cute", which is a habit that isn't easily mutable to a male, and Kenji's feminist conspiracy would rather reverse. Certainly, none of them would act totally the same, since societal pressures on boys and girls are not the same. Each character's basic personality traits are, however, not tied to their genders. Naturally it would be a lot of work though, like any massive undertaking.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/tr ... characters
This episode of the game developer's series, Extra Credit, talks about creating strong female characters. In one of their initial statements, they point out that, for most good characters, gender is unimportant. They would be just as awesome and interesting whether they were male or female.
Light and Dark
Good and Evil
Right and Wrong
taken from afar they blend together
and the world appears
all in shades of grey

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blackrising
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Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by blackrising » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:41 pm

The problem is that some traits just can't be associated with guys and the characters would inevitably be different in some way.
No, scratch that, the problem is that some qualities just aren't as cute/interesting in guys as they are in girls. Sometimes they even turn into quite unattractive traits.

Hanako's shyness? Totally adorable in her, but would you seriously go after a guy who runs away when you try to talk to him and always clings to his best friend?
Shizune's attitude? Most girls would probably think of M!Shizune as a total asshole for trying to leave them with the bill.
Misha's...Misha-ness? Hell, I'd probably sock any guy who acts like that in the jaw. (I remember that one time I screamed at that one guy I know to shut the fuck up...in front of all our classmates...and a few teachers...because he was laughing like a retard at some kind of dumb joke. God, how I hated him in that moment. >.>)
Emi's 'cuteness'? Not attractive if you're not into little boys.
Rin's weirdness? A guy with Rin's personality would probably be regarded as a total freak and avoided by boys and girls alike. In fact, I would be creeped out if a guy accused me of having a 'problem in my pants'.
Lilly is the only one I can imagine as a guy and actually find attractive. A gentleman if I ever saw one.
Misha worshipper to the core. WAHAHAHA~

Misha>Rin=Hanako=Lilly>>Shizune>Emi

Since I was no bigger than a weavil they've been saying I was evil
That if "bad" was a boot that I'd fit it
That I'm a wicked young lady, but I've been trying hard lately
O fuck it! I'm a monster! I admit it!

Tank-Toast

Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by Tank-Toast » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:41 pm

^ That's what I find most interesting, how gender would change the character. What about them would be the same?
As much as I do enjoy fanart, of course. I, however, disapprove of all the ponytails I'm seeing. I don't dig long hair on dudes. Especially Man Lilly, I don't like him looking all sissy.

Fishpick
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Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by Fishpick » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:17 am

Tank-Toast wrote:^ That's what I find most interesting, how gender would change the character. What about them would be the same?
As much as I do enjoy fanart, of course. I, however, disapprove of all the ponytails I'm seeing. I don't dig long hair on dudes. Especially Man Lilly, I don't like him looking all sissy.
:(

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Shades of Grey
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Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by Shades of Grey » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:23 am

@Blackrising
That is both correct and incorrect at the same time (as so many things are). Basic character traits are almost always constant regardless of gender. Its how they are expressed when constrained by gender related societal pressures that affects what we se on the outside. You speak as though a genderswap entails simply replacing the female sprites with male, and calling it a day. That is, of course, a ridiculous idea. As you pointed out, a man would not normally react in the same way as a girl in the same situation. But that is true even if they had the exact same personality. In the Emi example of cuteness, she is using feminine cuteness specifically because she is a girl playing up the societal expectation that girls are shy and cute. A male Emi with the exact same personality might act exaggeratedly suave or charming in that situation.

Personality traits are not extremely specific actions like acting cute, or leaving the bill. Those are simply expressions and manifestations of that person's personality in the given context, including the person's gender and the gender of the people around them. Personality traits are broad things, like shyness, energy, aggressiveness, restraint and so on. A proper genderswap would keep the characters personality traits, but adapt their reactions, and the scenarios to fit their new genders, which is, of course, a lot of work. On the topic of appeal, some character traits. Some are a bit less appealing with the gender transition, but overall, I think i would like each character about the same, either gender.
Light and Dark
Good and Evil
Right and Wrong
taken from afar they blend together
and the world appears
all in shades of grey

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blackrising
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Re: Genderbender: Katawa Shonen

Post by blackrising » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:27 am

^
I understand what you mean, but I still stand by my point.
I think the best example is still Hanako. Her extreme shyness is probably the trait that makes most of her fans love her so much. It makes her cute and wakes a protective, white-knight streak in the player. Now let's imagine Hanako was male, but still retained her shyness. Of course it would express itself differently. He'd still be quiet and spend all his time in the library. Maybe he'd even run away from the player, although probably in a calmer, more subtle manner than "IGOTTAGODOSOMETHING". Maybe instead of being the wallflower, he'd be the loner guy who shows everyone the cold shoulder. (Have't seen that one in Otome games before.../sarcasm)
Or maybe he does seem a little bit girly.
Anyway, the point is, what kind of reaction would that cause in the player?
Does it make him seem cute?
Does it wake a protective/white-knight streak?

Well, it probably depends on the person. But I know that for me, it doesn't. So genderswapping makes a character inevitably different in such a way that it may invoke completly different reactions in the player. (A guy with Shizune's or Rin's personality would still creep me out...but that's just a personal preference.)
So, I'm not saying that it's impossible to swap their genders. I'm also not saying that I wouldn't play it. (I'd be all over it in an instant if the writing was as good as in KS)
All I'm saying is that it would just be an entirely different experience and it probably wouldn't make much sense to swap the gender of already existing characters. You might as well invent new ones.
Misha worshipper to the core. WAHAHAHA~

Misha>Rin=Hanako=Lilly>>Shizune>Emi

Since I was no bigger than a weavil they've been saying I was evil
That if "bad" was a boot that I'd fit it
That I'm a wicked young lady, but I've been trying hard lately
O fuck it! I'm a monster! I admit it!

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