What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

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Empathysuicide
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Empathysuicide » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:12 am

You know it could be pretty interesting but you have to feel bad for the writers, after all someone missing their legs can still have a rediculously adorable personality since legs don't affect that but it's probably harder to make the adhd character obviously have it without being annoying. That said i'm not in anyway saying adhd is annoying just stating that for it to be the reason you sent your child to a special school means it's probably a pretty severe case. MY opinion is a little biased though since Katawa is hands down my favorite VN to date ,and thats with just the demo having been released, so i'm a little opposed to personality changes.
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Minister of Gloom » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:34 pm

Empathysuicide wrote:You know it could be pretty interesting but you have to feel bad for the writers, after all someone missing their legs can still have a rediculously adorable personality since legs don't affect that but it's probably harder to make the adhd character obviously have it without being annoying. That said i'm not in anyway saying adhd is annoying just stating that for it to be the reason you sent your child to a special school means it's probably a pretty severe case. MY opinion is a little biased though since Katawa is hands down my favorite VN to date ,and thats with just the demo having been released, so i'm a little opposed to personality changes.
A mental illness is not a personality trait. Ten different people with the same one may be vastly different, especially if they are characters in a story written to be entertaining and interesting.

Also, once again, I am sort of against classifying ADHD as a mental illness.
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Warwick » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:35 am

But... we've already concluded that mental retardation can be moe... :3
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by SirMax » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:17 am

Minister of Gloom wrote:Also, once again, I am sort of against classifying ADHD as a mental illness.
DSM-IV and ICD-10 disagree. Over-diagnosis in the past/over exposure of self-diagnosis does not invalidate a legitimate condition. Just because "I have Asperger's Syndrome" has become an internet excuse for poor social skills does not prevent it from being a condition on the autism spectrum. Likewise the fast that people are quick to claim any short attention span or flightiness as ADHD doesn't mean that the clinical condition has vanished from existence.

Speaking from experience, the diagnosis procedure is a little more extensive than seeing a kid acting hyper and declaring it's a syndrome.

Unless this is a matter of the severity of the condition, in which case we get into "Miki isn't disabled by missing a hand, Rin is missing both arms" unfair devaluation of disability by comparison.

More on topic, people don't need to be defined by mental disability any more than by physical disability. The girls' disabilities shut them off from certain hobbies, but I wouldn't say it makes their personality.
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Darlat » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:51 am

SirMax wrote:
Minister of Gloom wrote:Also, once again, I am sort of against classifying ADHD as a mental illness.
DSM-IV and ICD-10 disagree. Over-diagnosis in the past/over exposure of self-diagnosis does not invalidate a legitimate condition. Just because "I have Asperger's Syndrome" has become an internet excuse for poor social skills does not prevent it from being a condition on the autism spectrum. Likewise the fast that people are quick to claim any short attention span or flightiness as ADHD doesn't mean that the clinical condition has vanished from existence.
I don't see how Asperger's Syndrome automaticly makes you have bad social skills.
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Minister of Gloom » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:39 am

DSM-IV and ICD-10 disagree. Over-diagnosis in the past/over exposure of self-diagnosis does not invalidate a legitimate condition. Just because "I have Asperger's Syndrome" has become an internet excuse for poor social skills does not prevent it from being a condition on the autism spectrum. Likewise the fast that people are quick to claim any short attention span or flightiness as ADHD doesn't mean that the clinical condition has vanished from existence.

Speaking from experience, the diagnosis procedure is a little more extensive than seeing a kid acting hyper and declaring it's a syndrome.
I have explained myself incorrectly.
It is a clinical condition (as I have already said here more than once, I have it myself), I just don't think it deserves being on the same list with Asperger's, mental retardation or a bipolar disorder since it's not nearly as bad or remarkable. Sure, it sometimes makes life a tiny bit more difficult (WHERE DID I PUT MY WATCH GODDAMIT I AM ALREADY LATE), and Ritalin has some sucky side effects, but you really can't compare it to the difficulties someone with mental retardation has to go through.
It feels to me like putting them on the same list is a bit offensive to both people with ADHD and to people with actual, troublesome conditions.
It's basically like saying that mild nearsightedness is as bad a disability as being completely blind, or losing a leg.

Then again, this is just my opinion on the subject, so maybe it's just me making a fuss over something very insignificant.
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Guest Poster » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:10 am

I don't see how Asperger's Syndrome automaticly makes you have bad social skills.
That's not what he was saying. He merely said it was being used as an automatic excuse to justify someone's bad social skills.
I have explained myself incorrectly.
It is a clinical condition (as I have already said here more than once, I have it myself), I just don't think it deserves being on the same list with Asperger's, mental retardation or a bipolar disorder since it's not nearly as bad or remarkable. Sure, it sometimes makes life a tiny bit more difficult (WHERE DID I PUT MY WATCH GODDAMIT I AM ALREADY LATE), and Ritalin has some sucky side effects, but you really can't compare it to the difficulties someone with mental retardation has to go through.
It feels to me like putting them on the same list is a bit offensive to both people with ADHD and to people with actual, troublesome conditions.
It's basically like saying that mild nearsightedness is as bad a disability as being completely blind, or losing a leg.

Then again, this is just my opinion on the subject, so maybe it's just me making a fuss over something very insignificant.
I don't really think one condition is necessarily less bad than another, because what matters is how much of an impact it has on one's daily life and all conditions have various gradation levels, some people being light cases while others aren't. You mention your ADHD is a nuisance at times, but not truly crippling. (good for you) Still, I've met people whose ADHD-induced lack of impulse control got them into all sorts of heavy addictions and trouble ranging from relationships, to studies to trouble with the law. Likewise, I've met people with a fairly "light" case of Aspergers who were able to live a fairly stable and independant life and heavier cases who couldn't even finish high school (despite being extremely clever) and who'd probably never be able to live unsupervised. I think it's fair not to dismiss the possible impacts of one condition, just because there are many lighter cases around.

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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Darlat » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:25 pm

Guest Poster wrote:
I don't see how Asperger's Syndrome automaticly makes you have bad social skills.
That's not what he was saying. He merely said it was being used as an automatic excuse to justify someone's bad social skills.
That's what i'm pointing out.
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by SirMax » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:02 pm

Darlat wrote:
Guest Poster wrote:
I don't see how Asperger's Syndrome automaticly makes you have bad social skills.
That's not what he was saying. He merely said it was being used as an automatic excuse to justify someone's bad social skills.
That's what i'm pointing out.
I'm saying that the internet loves to use that particular condition as "I have self diagnosed myself with this so it's not my fault" and often what they are excusing with that excuse is poor social skills.
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Darlat » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:02 pm

I understood that, i'm wondering how they came to that conclusion.
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Silentcook » Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:12 pm

Thread: badly derailing.
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Shujoxa » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:15 pm

Silentcook wrote:Thread: badly derailing.
This thread had a rail? I read over it just now, it's been all over the place.
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Leotrak » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:51 am

SirMax wrote:Speaking from experience, the diagnosis procedure is a little more extensive than seeing a kid acting hyper and declaring it's a syndrome.
Completely true - it took psychologists the better part of a year to come to a conclusion in my case (PDD-NOS, by the way...) Granted, I was 10 at the time...
SirMax wrote:
Minister of Gloom wrote:Also, once again, I am sort of against classifying ADHD as a mental illness.
DSM-IV and ICD-10 disagree. Over-diagnosis in the past/over exposure of self-diagnosis does not invalidate a legitimate condition. Just because "I have Asperger's Syndrome" has become an internet excuse for poor social skills does not prevent it from being a condition on the autism spectrum. Likewise the fast that people are quick to claim any short attention span or flightiness as ADHD doesn't mean that the clinical condition has vanished from existence.
Lately, I've been wondering whether autism spectrum disorders can really still be seen as an actual disorder by the time someone diagnosed with it turns, let's say, 30, especially in milder cases like myself. Because after living with it for so long, I can't tell what parts in my personality and behavior stem from my 'disorder', and what parts have always been my character traits. Best idea I've come up with so far regarding classification would be "acquired personality traits", but that would probably not float...

I'm not saying to remove the classification altogether for adults, I simply feel the term 'disorder" doesn't apply to me anymore in full force, and others like me who've only ever had the milder form that only requires a little extra attention at regular high schools, after having lived and having learned to live with it for what might well be half our lives (hopefully only a third :P).


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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Darlat » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:46 am

Well, i agree with removing the milder cases from being on the "disorder" list while still keeping the more severe ones on there, since it causes them pretty big problems.
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Re: What if the Katawa Shoujo was...

Post by Teclo » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:45 am

Leotrak wrote:...
Well there's an argument that a disorder is really just a convenient tag for a group of problematic personality traits. It's often seen like some kind of status effect you're inflicted with; "oh no, the goblin cast autism on me, and the healer's down with schizophrenia so he can't do anything about it!" There are people that are very obsessive about things, that worry a lot, that focus on small details at the expense of everything else. What's the difference between them and someone with OCD? Geekiness is essentially a brother to autism - take a hardcore geek and you have someone who most likely fits the bill for autism. Furthermore, if that kind of personality was incredibly common - say 90% of the population were like that - then it wouldn't even have a name and we'd have to come up with a disorder for the people that we currently would consider "normal".
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