What you WOULD have wanted to happen in the story

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Wraith_Magus
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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by Wraith_Magus » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:36 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:I'm not. That's exactly what I argued against in my reply to your first post:
Mirage_GSM wrote:The problem is, that having a different personality also changes how people react to you, so you'd basically have to have multiple versions of each scene, which would make the amount of text grow exponentially without any significant increase in story content.
I'd rather have one good long story than five short ones that are basically the same anyway.
Perhaps you should reread those posts; What I was saying was that there would be, essentially, two different sections, a "common" section, where you make choices whose immediate effects are minor changes in text, but which accrue points to one path or another, and then a "branched" section at the very end, where the choices you make split the path into different types of relationships, again, mirroring the way in which choices you make early on make relatively minor changes in the game, but wind up branching the path along which girl you have decided upon late in the game (around act 5, as I had said).

EDIT: Because this might need further clarification, perhaps I should specify exactly why I had said that many of the choices would have little immediate impact: When I had first suggested this branching path based upon Hisao personality/player preference/relationship dynamic, the argument against it had been that "it would multiply the required volume of text by 5", and that is why, rebutting that claim, I had pointed to the way in which the game already works, as far as the demo goes, where many of the choices you make have little immediate impact, as well. The difference between the Lilly and the Hanako paths in the Demo is basically only the last choice and the last couple scenes. The differnce between having two or only one of those paths is not doubling the amount of text, it is only increasing the amount of text by (in a total hip-shot estimation, no need to correct this) 5-10%. The Rin path, as well, is basically the path you fall into if you don't follow any other paths, and it recycles about 80% of its text from the other paths. That is, I was arguing against the notion that adding these choices, and adding distinctly different endings would not cause the amount of writing the game would need to rise at a geometric growth rate, not that this would involve making insubstantial choices for the player to pursue.

Because of this, regarding what G3n0c1de said, I don't think this would require a game where you only pursue one girl, because one could do this as easily as any other number of branches. I do, however, fully understand if the devs simply declare that something that would require re-storyboarding some parts of the game to accomidate the changes would simply be too much to do this late in the game, but if it were done from the start of the storyboarding process, there would not be a detriment to taking this sort of path.

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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by Silentcook » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:54 pm

Ooo-kay.

Just to be on the safe side, I want to make it VERY clear (as I did on the "what you wouldn't" thread mirroring this) that the game's design is, how to say? Well estabilished by now, and the chances of it changing are very very slim. Or nil, as long as we're talking about general forum discussion.

Clarification aside, discuss away, folks.
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Aura
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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by Aura » Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:02 pm

Wraith_Magus wrote:Stuff about flow complexity and such
Unfortunately, the reality of writing a VN is, in my experience, very different. Complexity and elegance are enemies to each other. I designed Act 1 and it is, well, very clumsy, even after four or howevermany iterations I've made on it. Even though you comment that it seems somewhat elegant at times, I can tell you that it has A LOT of text that we didn't want to be in there but had to be written to accommodate the rather insane complexity of it all. Also, Act 1 is kinda forgiving because it has a relatively weak narrative. Trying to cram the same level of complexity into a story with a strong plot and narrative would be quite a bit harder. Anyway, I've familiarized myself with the flow design of some other (professionally made) VNs and they are not really much prettier than what I managed to crap out. What they have got going for them though, is that the writer often has a rather good grasp of how to do followups on certain flow elements (essentially choices), and how to mask the effect of the choices so that there is a minimal need for conditional text blocks. I think that is something that one can learn, heck, I've practiced doing it. However true elegance is something that's incredibly difficult to get to from the structural premises of a traditional visual novel.

Man, kinda jargony post I think, but the gist of it is that what you are imagining is fucking hard in practice and none of us is a wizard. I don't know a single example of a really beautifully done VN structure.
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trhvmn
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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by trhvmn » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:30 pm

...going back to simple things, I was reminded of Rin's period scene by a post in the "best quotes" thread, and for some reason, thought of a scene later on where Hisao actually has to pull her underwear down in the girls' toilet.

It would work! Perfectly! Or maybe not, but it would certainly be interesting to see.
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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by neumanproductions » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:37 am

trhvmn wrote:...going back to simple things, I was reminded of Rin's period scene by a post in the "best quotes" thread, and for some reason, thought of a scene later on where Hisao actually has to pull her underwear down in the girls' toilet.
It would work! Perfectly! Or maybe not, but it would certainly be interesting to see.
Ah, the infamous 102% completion. I have a certian feeling that will actually transpire in the full release but who am I to make these predictions.
Rin=Hanako>Emi>Misha>Lilly>Shizune (Misha counts in my world alright; and now she surpassed Lilly)
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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by AapoAlas » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:46 am

Yeah, definetly want to see that, 'cause well... There's this saying:

It takes a man to swim in the red waters.
It takes a hero to drink from them.

It's just a step further from pulling down Rin's underwear in a small toilet, you have to kneel in front of her anyways.
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blackrising
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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by blackrising » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:12 pm

Not that I would mind pulling down Rin's underwear in the toilet...but doing anything more would kind of freak me out.
And let me tell you, women are generally not in the mood for sex during that time of the month. Having blood gush out of you doesn't really make you comfortable enough for any kind of sexual activity. Then again, this is a VN and little things like blood, pain and/or missing limbs (and no, I'm not referring to Rin's lack of arms here) never stopped anyone. :roll:

Back on topic...I would like to see Misha NOT being pushed aside. Hisao and Shizune are perfectly capable of getting closer without Misha dying or falling into a coma. In fact, I don't want to see anyone die. That will just make me cry and not be able to play it again.
And if the have to kill anyone, let it be Kenji. He can go down in some kind of epic, heroic scene, battling the evil forces of feminism. :twisted:
Misha worshipper to the core. WAHAHAHA~

Misha>Rin=Hanako=Lilly>>Shizune>Emi

Since I was no bigger than a weavil they've been saying I was evil
That if "bad" was a boot that I'd fit it
That I'm a wicked young lady, but I've been trying hard lately
O fuck it! I'm a monster! I admit it!

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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by Wan-wanniche » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:09 pm

blackrising wrote:And if the have to kill anyone, let it be Kenji. He can go down in some kind of epic, heroic scene, battling the evil forces of feminism. :twisted:
Congratulations. You take Kenji-hate to new/old heights.

Although that could be a totally epic and fitting ending. :)
Rin takes an unexpected lead in the updated polls.
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blackrising
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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by blackrising » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:40 pm

Wan-wanniche wrote:
blackrising wrote:And if the have to kill anyone, let it be Kenji. He can go down in some kind of epic, heroic scene, battling the evil forces of feminism. :twisted:
Congratulations. You take Kenji-hate to new/old heights.

Although that could be a totally epic and fitting ending. :)
Me? Hating Kenji? Naah. His speeches were annoying, but he's not bad.
I'd just rather have him die than anyone else.
*petsMisha*

Can't you just imagine it? Kenji standing in the middle of a vast field, bloody and beaten, with a baseball bat in hand while hundreds of crazy bitches close in on him. He'll truly be the last man standing.
..Until he's forced to his knees by the unstoppable force of WAHAHAHA~
Misha worshipper to the core. WAHAHAHA~

Misha>Rin=Hanako=Lilly>>Shizune>Emi

Since I was no bigger than a weavil they've been saying I was evil
That if "bad" was a boot that I'd fit it
That I'm a wicked young lady, but I've been trying hard lately
O fuck it! I'm a monster! I admit it!

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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by Wan-wanniche » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:34 pm

I can see it... It's so vivid but at the same time, hazy, as if a dream...
EPIC. :D

Back on topic, (ish) do you [everyone in general] prefer fansubs or dubs? My opinion is that many fansubs I come across are actually on par or better than the translations that many dubs for the same series are. Well, that and most dubs suck at picking the right voice for the characters.

But, then again, I can't speak Japanese at all. besides random bits I picked up watching the aforementioned fansubs.
Last edited by Silentcook on Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: ...this is on topic HOW? I think you may have missed the correct thread. O_o
Rin takes an unexpected lead in the updated polls.
Surprised? a little
Is this unexpected? Have you met Rin:)?
Expect the unexpected. lol

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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by Worshipper of the Spiral Queen » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:21 am

The idea of someone walking in on Hisao and his girl of choice during a hentai scene keeps bugging me. Just think of the possibilities!
Emi walking in on Rin x Hisao (Rin: "Hey Emi, wanna join?")
Akira walking in on Lilly x Hisao (instant awesome)
Yuuko walking in on Hisao x anyone (and trying to lecture them about it)
Lilly walking in on Hanako x Hisao ("I thought I heard strange sounds coming from this room.")
Oh wait, that last option would be even better if Lilly was walking in on Shizune x Hisao.

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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by G3n0c1de » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:41 am

Worshipper of the Spiral Queen wrote:Yuuko walking in on Hisao x anyone (and trying to lecture them about it)
Yuuko is skittish enough to die of embarrassment instead. The only lectures I can see would come from Muto or the Nurse.
It's a good thing Shizune is deaf, she is the only one who can stand (not) hearing "Wahaha~!" over and over.

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blackrising
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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by blackrising » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:41 am

G3n0c1de wrote:
Worshipper of the Spiral Queen wrote:Yuuko walking in on Hisao x anyone (and trying to lecture them about it)
Yuuko is skittish enough to die of embarrassment instead. The only lectures I can see would come from Muto or the Nurse.
Or Kenji. Although it'd be more a speech about how Hisao needs to be strong and escape from the evil clutches of the she-demon he's currently with.
I can't see Muto lecturing them, though. He'd be more like "Yeah, hmm...just make sure to clean up when you're done."
The Nurse would probably sit down and watch, smiling that creepy smile of his.
Misha worshipper to the core. WAHAHAHA~

Misha>Rin=Hanako=Lilly>>Shizune>Emi

Since I was no bigger than a weavil they've been saying I was evil
That if "bad" was a boot that I'd fit it
That I'm a wicked young lady, but I've been trying hard lately
O fuck it! I'm a monster! I admit it!

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Yuurei
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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by Yuurei » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:59 am

blackrising wrote: The Nurse would probably sit down and watch, smiling that creepy smile of his.
"I just said to do light sport, you good boy" I suppose. :)

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Re: What you WOULD want to happen in the story

Post by Esa94 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:08 am

G3n0c1de wrote:
Worshipper of the Spiral Queen wrote:Yuuko walking in on Hisao x anyone (and trying to lecture them about it)
Yuuko is skittish enough to die of embarrassment instead. The only lectures I can see would come from Muto or the Nurse.
She'd probably turn around, run into a wall and knock herself out or something.

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