The Thread Thread: Questions about alternate outfits, etc.

[MonChrMe]

Also I think that skilled use of transparencies would destroy that "eyes over the hair" stuff, but again I'm the guy who works with text, not images.

You just copy any hair that extends over the face onto a separate layer and apply that after the eyes. Assuming you *want* the hair to go over the eyes, that is.

A lot of the technical problems associated with paper dolls are (normally, not familiar with Ren'py) pretty easy to work around, but it's extra work for the art team and the only benefit to doing it in a game like KS is to reduce the filesize. Important ten years ago - not so much now. The music's probably going to stomp all over the artwork in terms of filesizes anyway.

[Suriko]

The sprites do have paperdolls in their .psd files, but not in-game.

The base sprites for each pose (usually a simplified nude, like a mannequin) have clothes and expressions drawn over them as layers. To give you an idea of how many there can be, using a little script in Photoshop, I checked the amount of layers in one of Lilly's sprite files and came to the figure of 217. Every artist uses a different work method though, with some preferring fewer layers and more merging.

Combining everything in Renpy could work at a basic level (and indeed some VNs do handle expressions and such through in-game layering), but it would be needlessly complicated compared to just having fully-made sprites - especially when movement and other sprite-effecting direction occurs.

[Kazuki]

217 layers? Geez...I have no idea how that's possible, unless you give every fold in the girl's dress a layer.

[trhvmn]

217 layers? Geez...I have no idea how that's possible, unless you give every fold in the girl's dress a layer.

I'd assume that that's one layer for each expression+clothing type combination, not counting the base nude one.

Though I can't really imagine 72 different expressions.

[Suriko]

It's some of the arm positions, some of the outfits, cane and expressions. Each of those things have a few layers each which are left unmerged. The layers aren't organised as they are in-game, but rather

- Arm gestures Uniform
--- Arm gesture 1
--- Arm gesture 2
- Arm gestures [Outfit]
--- Arm gesture 1
--- Arm gesture 2
- Body Uniform
- Body [Outfit]
- Expressions
--- Expression 1
--- Expression 2

With each of those entries being a folder of layers.

[Caesius]

I have enough trouble keeping track of 10 layers.

[Mercutio]

To give you an idea of how many there can be, using a little script in Photoshop, I checked the amount of layers in one of Lilly's sprite files and came to the figure of 217.

dude... I'm lucky I could shrink and cut the picture for my avatar in photoshop. my respect for the artists has just increased a ton. anyone who can not only keep track of that many layers, but make it all look good in the end? damn, man. just... damn.

though now I'm kinda curious how many layers it takes to make Misha's hair look like that...

as for other outfits, I remember cpl_crud mentioning pajamas in the Manifest panel. I understand why the artists said no to another outfit set, but it would have been nifty. I like seeing what characters sleep in, I don't know why. though now that I think about it, Rin probably sleeps naked, and that's good too.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I don't know if Rin sleeps naked, but I figure if Emi isn't around, Rin probably doesn't bother wearing a bra on those days.

[Guest Poster]

I always figured Rin wore sports bras or something she could put on herself without needing assistence. It was already established that while Emi's help is convenient, it's not mandatory for Rin.

[Goldilurks]

not counting the base nude one.

I'm ashamed to admit it that this line out of this entire page of the thread was the first to catch my attention, and is still in the forefront of my mind.

Getting back on topic, question for the Devs: do you have any non-CG scenes where shoes/footwear will be visible and/or significant? I know that you've rendered the girls from head to toe, so...

[kosherbacon]

[shimmie]600[/shimmie]

I find the presence of heels on an already tall(by comparison) Lilly to be most titillating.

[Suriko]

Those are WIP designs though, mind. They've changed since then.

not counting the base nude one.

I'm ashamed to admit it that this line out of this entire page of the thread was the first to catch my attention, and is still in the forefront of my mind.

Getting back on topic, question for the Devs: do you have any non-CG scenes where shoes/footwear will be visible and/or significant? I know that you've rendered the girls from head to toe, so...

I'm a little lost by exactly what you're asking. Sprites represent what Hisao sees in front of him, so the only real way to show footwear would be within CGs. All the girls do have canon footwear, though.

[Minister of Gloom]

Those are WIP designs though, mind. They've changed since then.

not counting the base nude one.

I'm ashamed to admit it that this line out of this entire page of the thread was the first to catch my attention, and is still in the forefront of my mind.

Getting back on topic, question for the Devs: do you have any non-CG scenes where shoes/footwear will be visible and/or significant? I know that you've rendered the girls from head to toe, so...

I'm a little lost by exactly what you're asking. Sprites represent what Hisao sees in front of him, so the only real way to show footwear would be within CGs. All the girls do have canon footwear, though.

Wait, does that mean that Rin wears shoes at some point? I was under the impression that she had to be barefooted at all times in order to use her toes like fingers... Or does she take off her shoes when she needs to interact with things?

[Aura]

Rin uses a sort of flip-flop sandals normally. Easy and fast to take off and put on. She also can (and does) put on a normal bra by herself but tends to wear camisoles more often.

[Csihar]

Getting back on topic, question for the Devs: do you have any non-CG scenes where shoes/footwear will be visible and/or significant? I know that you've rendered the girls from head to toe, so...

Not a dev obviously, but if you're asking what I think you're asking, I don't think the sprites go all the way down to the feet, but they do extend a bit further down than usually shows up in the game - I recall one of the devs posting an Emi sprite that showed her striped leggings, although the bottom edge of the screen is usually somewhere around the bottom of her skirt.