Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

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Bara
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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Bara » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:25 am

Now, in all seriousness, unless the Devs were trying to write a serious exploration of the girls characters as if they were whining, bemoaning-their-fate-pity-poor-me personalities, all the girls basic character and personality features have to be strong enough and well integrated enough to let them be believably attractive enough to hook Hisao. Otherwise the story self-implodes as soon as he meets them in his class.
Act 1 is mainly discusses Hisao's "issues" and doesn't get into the girls anxieties and traumas at all. Any judgment we make from Act 1 basically comes down to each of us making our own subjective ranking of, "This girl has the least horrible problem and this girl's is the worst problem.". But we are still guessing on how we the players react to the injuries, without more of the paths to play we can only continue to guess.

Geeze, I can't even follow my own sentence structure on that post. But my coherence falls way off after 18 hours of no sleep and I'm at 22 hours right without any shuteye. Maybe I can edit this into a understandable concept after crashing for a few hours.

(But experience says not damn likely...) :mrgreen:

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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Synoptic » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:01 am

I think it goes like this:

Any normal, everyday person out there would most likely be reluctant to show those scars AND would feel (more or less) uneasy when people take notice of those hideous scars.
Feigning ignorance concerning disabilities would be stupid right?
Just like Hisao did (if you have chosen the "Hi, I'm Hisao!" option during the game when you meet Hanako in the library). He also said it in-game.

Now here comes the important part... Hanako's case.
Take everything I said earlier about those normal, everyday persons and their reluctance and uneasiness, and replace the "normal, everyday persons" with a <insert Hanako's age here> years old shy girl and you have a very bad combo.
So no, I do not think Hanako's disability is cheap.
Why? Because that particular disability is found at THIS particular subject (Hanako).
For example if Shizune had this kind of disability then her personality would still remain the same but with some minor changes, though not so much of a change as in Hanako's case which is a shy girl by nature and as many other shy people they are more interested about their appearance than regular people are.

Which takes me to the point that I believe Hanako's disability is more psychic sided rather than physical.

Please DO correct me if I'm wrong... about anything.
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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Member22 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:09 am

G3n0c1de wrote:Emi and Hanako draw a sort of spectrum of how they handled their situations. At one end, Hanako has withdrawn from society, becoming a fragile, shy, recluse. Emi is at the other end, she grabs ahold of life and doesn't look back. She lives life fast, and as full as she can. It's almost as if she took up running just to spite the fact that she lost her legs. Whether she gained her energetic and care free attitude as a result of the accident, or she recovered so well due to her personality being so positive before it, we will probably learn in the final game.
What you said can be a possibility... but I wrote from my assumptions and my life experience i.e I know a bunch of ppl who had a LOT of problems deep down, but had a similar happy, energetic and positive personality which encased a shrunken shadow of themselves (if you get what I mean lol)... but still, maybe what you said is indeed Emi's situation, the only way we will know is by playing the final game (like what we all said)
Bara wrote:Act 1 is mainly discusses Hisao's "issues" and doesn't get into the girls anxieties and traumas at all. Any judgment we make from Act 1 basically comes down to each of us making our own subjective ranking of, "This girl has the least horrible problem and this girl's is the worst problem.". But we are still guessing on how we the players react to the injuries, without more of the paths to play we can only continue to guess.
You pretty much described what we have been doing in this thread this whole time lol
"If Hisao took one thing away from his time at Yamaku it was the fact that people who have handicaps don't actually have handicaps. People like Lilly and Shizune are more able-bodied and well-adjusted than most of the kids at Hisao's old high school. He shook his head slightly. No, students at Yamaku weren't handicapped; everyone else was." - WetCrate

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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Shades of gray » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:24 am

I would like to point out (having had a friend who had a chip-pan accident when he was young) the other affects of severe burns : the nerves in the affected areas may be damaged, causing erratic movement, pain, or the nerves may be damaged to the extent of rendering areas unusable.

my friend had scars down most of his arm, but it was his hand that was the worst affected, the pinky was gone, as was half the finger next to it (not sure if they were surgically removed or not) and the entire hand had a plastic/rubber look to it. he was quite well adjusted to it though, mainly as he had the accident when he was 6 (he would be 22 now) but in school he was teased and picked on due to it, sadly when he was 12 his folks had to move towns so i havent seen him in a long time.

still wonder how he's doing from time to time.
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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Bara » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:47 pm

Hmmmm, so I mentally switched Hanako's and Shizune's disabilities and I still get Hanako being a shy wall flower trying to disappear in any situation (not running out of the room, just running into the corner of the room and trying to blend in with the paint) and I see Shizune using the technique of showing flashes of the scars on her face to unsettle her adversary and win arguments (and getting irritated because the technique does not work on Lilly who can't see them).

In the end some disabilities are not as bad as they could be with some peoples basic personality, and some only add onto and reinforce aspects of the person and make the disability worse. It is the luck of the draw (or RAITA's creative muse) what the Flying Fickle Finger of Fate did to the characters to bring them to the setting where KS takes place.

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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Minister of Gloom » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:06 pm

Hmmmm, so I mentally switched Hanako's and Shizune's disabilities and I still get Hanako being a shy wall flower trying to disappear in any situation (not running out of the room, just running into the corner of the room and trying to blend in with the paint) and I see Shizune using the technique of showing flashes of the scars on her face to unsettle her adversary and win arguments (and getting irritated because the technique does not work on Lilly who can't see them).
That's an AWESOME idea for some fanart/fanfiction there! Giving each character the disability of another. wonderful! Blind Rin! Arrhythmic Hanako! Legless Shizune! The possibilities are endless(well mathematically they are not, but there are still a lot of them).
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זה מגניב אותי כל פעם מחדש, העובדה שיש פה עברית. אני תוהה אם מישהו ישים לב ששיניתי חתימה.

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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Member22 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:30 pm

Minister of Gloom wrote:That's an AWESOME idea for some fanart/fanfiction there! Giving each character the disability of another. wonderful! Blind Rin! Arrhythmic Hanako! Legless Shizune! The possibilities are endless(well mathematically they are not, but there are still a lot of them).
You have probably spawned an entire generation fanart/fic :shock:, but I have to say that pulling off a great fic about a blind rin or legless shizune would not be as easy as it sounds
"If Hisao took one thing away from his time at Yamaku it was the fact that people who have handicaps don't actually have handicaps. People like Lilly and Shizune are more able-bodied and well-adjusted than most of the kids at Hisao's old high school. He shook his head slightly. No, students at Yamaku weren't handicapped; everyone else was." - WetCrate

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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Minister of Gloom » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:49 pm

Member22 wrote:
Minister of Gloom wrote:That's an AWESOME idea for some fanart/fanfiction there! Giving each character the disability of another. wonderful! Blind Rin! Arrhythmic Hanako! Legless Shizune! The possibilities are endless(well mathematically they are not, but there are still a lot of them).
You have probably spawned an entire generation fanart/fic :shock:, but I have to say that pulling off a great fic about a blind rin or legless shizune would not be as easy as it sounds
At least a blind Rin wouldn't have to care about bad luck.
Life, what is it but a dream?
זה מגניב אותי כל פעם מחדש, העובדה שיש פה עברית. אני תוהה אם מישהו ישים לב ששיניתי חתימה.

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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Leotrak » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:00 pm

Minister of Gloom wrote:At least a blind Rin wouldn't have to care about bad luck.
I wonder how she'd paint the mural then, though... I doubt it'd turn out the same
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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Bara » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:03 pm

Member22 wrote:
Minister of Gloom wrote:That's an AWESOME idea for some fanart/fanfiction there! Giving each character the disability of another. wonderful! Blind Rin! Arrhythmic Hanako! Legless Shizune! The possibilities are endless(well mathematically they are not, but there are still a lot of them).
You have probably spawned an entire generation fanart/fic :shock:, but I have to say that pulling off a great fic about a blind rin or legless shizune would not be as easy as it sounds
As long as you can tap into the girls character in the first place and write a good fic, figuring how different disabilities effect their lives should be comparably simpler.

(says someone who knows he has next to no fiction writing ability and little interest in making the effort to learn how hard writing is.) :mrgreen:

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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Bara » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:07 pm

Leotrak wrote:
Minister of Gloom wrote:At least a blind Rin wouldn't have to care about bad luck.
I wonder how she'd paint the mural then, though... I doubt it'd turn out the same
Probably sculpture instead of painting at a guess, or possibly artistry expressed through music. There are options out there.

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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by ContinualNaba » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:56 pm

G3n0c1de wrote:
Member22 wrote: Although Emi's problem seems to have been (almost) solved, I am sure that the mental/psychological trauma related to her accident is definitely there... lol I may be pushing my luck, but she might be more psychologically/mentally messed up than Hanako... but it is well hidden behind her passion for sports and her positive personality... I am sure you'll see more of this problem in Emi's path
I'll have to disagree with you on this. To me, Emi seems like the most 'normal' heroine of the bunch. She may be energetic, but she seems well grounded. Emi's accident would have been a traumatic experience, but I feel that she has coped well. As the only other heroine who was not born with their disability, Emi and Hanako draw a sort of spectrum of how they handled their situations. At one end, Hanako has withdrawn from society, becoming a fragile, shy, recluse. Emi is at the other end, she grabs ahold of life and doesn't look back. She lives life fast, and as full as she can. It's almost as if she took up running just to spite the fact that she lost her legs. Whether she gained her energetic and care free attitude as a result of the accident, or she recovered so well due to her personality being so positive before it, we will probably learn in the final game.

With Emi's problems taken care of, it seems that she enjoy's helping Rin with her day to day activities, and has taken an interest in Hisao's health. I'm not sure what The Hive Mind has in store for us, but I feel it will be centered around Emi helping Hisao with his health, and the depression caused by his condition.
I actually feel that the reason Emi coped so well with her condition was the apparent lack of impairment that she received, coupled with the fact that her prosthetics are advanced enough that they can be effectively -if not easily- concealed. Lack of legs or not, she's fast, perhaps even more so with her lightweight and hightech springfeet. Sure, she'll never tap-dance, but she's no more apparently impaired from reaching whatever goals she's set for herself.

Hanako's is slightly different. While I'm not sure if healed amputations require continuing treatment (Probably so, given that her legs are still growing), burns to that extent certainly do. They can't really be concealed, and they will impede her movement slightly if the folds around the joints were char-grilled. But for the most part, whether Hanako had a dream or a goal to work towards before the fire and how losing that may have affected her resolve is something to see elaborated on in the next act.
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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Guest » Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:39 pm

"I know that Katawa Shoujo is a realistic game, with realistic characters."

Its a dating sim with characters made for a dating sim that were made to be realistic in the context of a dating sim. They are not realistic in real life. It's the truth.

The disabilities of the characters were decided by Raita based on what he thought would be cool in a dating game. The justifications for being at Yamuku were written afterwards. So the bottom line is. Yes, emi and Hanako have cheap disabilities. But its a work of fiction dating simulator. Who cares.

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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by ContinualNaba » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:22 am

A story is a story, regardless of medium. Disregard anything by so trivial a container at your own peril.
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Re: Hanako's disability is "cheap"?

Post by Bara » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:27 am

Guest wrote:"I know that Katawa Shoujo is a realistic game, with realistic characters."

Its a dating sim with characters made for a dating sim that were made to be realistic in the context of a dating sim. They are not realistic in real life. It's the truth.

The disabilities of the characters were decided by Raita based on what he thought would be cool in a dating game. The justifications for being at Yamuku were written afterwards. So the bottom line is. Yes, emi and Hanako have cheap disabilities. But its a work of fiction dating simulator. Who cares.
Actually, I look on KS as a story for me to enjoy first and foremost. If the level of writing in Act 1 wasn't better than "just another dating sim" I would have deleted it from my computer before Hisao got out of the hospital. Who the hell has the time to waste reading bad fiction? There are tons of garbage being written and published every day; the trick is to find GOOD stories to enjoy.

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