Another article about Katawa Shoujo

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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by Merlyn_LeRoy » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:48 pm

My thoughts?

Yes, there will be "porn" -- more specifically, teenage schoolkids experiencing their first wonderful, fumbling, deep sexual relationship, the kind of thing people literally remember for the rest of their lives.

And it uses the term "katawa shoujo," roughly meaning "crippled/deformed girls," which is not considered a polite term in Japan. I'm certainly nothing like an expert in Japanese etymology, but I'm willing to bet the bad connotations are due to societal attitudes towards "the other" and the general fear of being crippled that such people are a constant reminder of. One way to combat that is to confront it directly. Maybe Richard Pryor should have called his third album "That Negro's Crazy" instead. But I don't think so.

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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by Captain Niggawatts » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:48 pm

ubergeneral wrote:This article is much better since while it does equate 4chan to us it doesn't demonize us for being an idea that originated from 4chan.

I'm glad that he was able to make that distinction about us. No one can deny that 4 chan has a horrible reputation and that KS is something that originated from 4 chan. So by making this article and pointing out the facts that this has good character design and writing is a good thing.

....

however two things are worrisome. He doesn't mention that KS is an eroge. That means that no matter how good the writing is or how colorful that characters are eventually there will be porn. It's possible that the writer didn't know this fact and just by reading the demo you wouldn't know this either.

This is the biggest argument as to way there should not be porn in the final product. KS already has 2 strikes against it for being from 4 chan. Now add porn and no matter how tasteful the writing is and no matter well developed the characters are people will not think too highly of this project.

Second is the games name. Katawa does translate to "cripple" or "Disability" is Japanese. I did not know that this word was banned from Japanese television. I think that it will be very hard for something like this to be seen as a good thing when the very title is offensive. I understand that the devs mean well but due to a combination of originating from a seedy place, having a borderline offensive name and having adult content makes this difficult for people to really get into unless you know about the good things that come with it.

What are your thoughts?

Katawa is not a bad word. The only time anyone ever said it was was one Japanese dude in a comment page, saying it is rude. From what the devs have said regarding conversations with Authentic Licensed Japanese People, it's a pretty archaic word. It'd be like saying "zounds". It's technically a swear, but it's so old that nobody cares anymore.

As for it being porn, who the hell cares?
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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by 9taileddemon » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:39 pm

Oh hey, this guy is on one of the forums I reside on. Funny how that happens.

I think that the article was well written and discusses many of the good aspects of the game.

I do however get the feeling he doesn't realize that there will be porn in it. If he does know, he ignored the issue completely.

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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by Yo-yo » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:56 pm

He asked questions about the sex in his interview, so he must have known about it. He provided a link to said interview, so people who read the entire thing will be aware.

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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by ubergeneral » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:19 am

Yo-yo wrote:He asked questions about the sex in his interview, so he must have known about it. He provided a link to said interview, so people who read the entire thing will be aware.
it's odd that he didn't mention it then. It's pretty importent as it make the difference between me being able to show it to my 14 year old cousin and a 21 year old school mate.

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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by Yo-yo » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:31 am

Anyone who wants to play the game, or wants to recommend the game to someone else needs to read something written by the developers before doing so. It would be stupid to play something without reading anything official. Second question of the forum's FaQ is, "Will there be sex/H scenes in the final version?" In the About section of the official site, it says, "Katawa Shoujo contains adult content."

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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by Bara » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:54 am

Well, quite the glowing article; quibble though we forum dwellers may about things such as skipping mention that the final release will have h-scenes. As others have pointed out any review is not going to be as comprehensive as the FAQ. I give the reviewer props for going directly to the source and speaking with the Devs directly. Many "game" reviews get written without anywhere near the effort at researching from direct sources as this person did. I think the average person reading the review will get the impression that there is something very worthwhile to check into in KS.

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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by SirMax » Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:42 pm

List of words banned on Japanese television I can't read kanji, but Katawa Shoujo minus the kanji for shoujo is on there, so I think katawa's on there. Of course, that could just be formality, for all I can tell.
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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by Csihar » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:40 pm

SirMax wrote:List of words banned on Japanese television I can't read kanji, but Katawa Shoujo minus the kanji for shoujo is on there, so I think katawa's on there. Of course, that could just be formality, for all I can tell.
I don't think it would be a problem unless someone wanted to make an anime version, and even then they could probably just call it Yamaku Shoujo or something. Also, it reminds me of the growing popularity of bands in America with the word "fuck" in their name (Fuck, Fucked Up, Fuck Buttons, The Fucking Champs, Holy Fuck, just off the top of my head). Hasn't hurt them much, and although none of them are particularly mainstream, I can almost guarantee they have more fans than KS does (thanks Pitchfork). Japan may be a bit more socially conservative than America (in odd, unpredictable ways), but I think the trend among younger generations to not care about cusses - especially old-fashioned ones - is pretty universal. I know hearing about a game called "Gimp Girls" or whatever would catch my ear, personally, and the kind of people who would be offended probably wouldn't be interested in playing it anyway.

Back on topic... I think it's fine that the guy didn't mention H-scenes, since there aren't any in act 1. Better to be intrigued by a demo and later decide whether finishing the full version is worth seeing (or skipping) a little sex, than to be immediately turned off from something genuinely good because you got a bad knee-jerk first impression.
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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by Bara » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:46 pm

SirMax wrote:List of words banned on Japanese television I can't read kanji, but Katawa Shoujo minus the kanji for shoujo is on there, so I think katawa's on there. Of course, that could just be formality, for all I can tell.
Of course the fact that it is on a list does not tell you when it was listed, the reasoning behind listing it, and when the list has last been reviewed for revision. I'm sure the Japanese bureaucracy and society has more pressing things on it's collective mind than the title of a VN being made by some strange foreigners. :lol:

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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by Panty Supervisor » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 pm

When you look at the websites of some organizations, projects or whatever, they sometimes have a section that is called "in the news" or "in the press" or something like that. This is where they collect news articles and press releases on themselves. It's may be a little too early to expect an appearance of Katawa Shoujo in the news, but there are at least a few blog entries, articles, reviews etc. about it.
I've been wondering if we have a thread where links to articles on KS are collected. If we don't, we should have one.
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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by Yubiseiharukana » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:24 pm

contown wrote:
Just think back to how they/he/she/it inflicted huge retribution on those people who were stupid enough to post videos of them abusing a cat to the internet. They've also shot down pedophiles and wrecked a racist radio show host's career.
Huh? When did that stuff happen? I didn't think 4chan members would ever accomplish something good...

I want to say it was a set of Youtube videos about a boy calling himself "Timmy," and he would beat his cat "Dusty" (don't quote me on the names). A group of anonymous (of course) 4chan /b/ board members had taken serious offense to these videos, and not only had the videos promptly removed, but also worked with the police to track "Timmy" and have him arrested.


But about the article, I liked it. Sure, I didn't like the direct comparison with the /b/ board, but that link will probably never die. Besides, as said in other posts on this forum, it's great advertising 8).
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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by cpl_crud » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:17 pm

For crying out loud, when will people listen to me?

There was a single comment, once, on 2ch that mentioned that "Katawa" used to be an old word that used to have the same implications as a butcher (not a very Buddhist occupation).
The post was mis-translated and put on 4chan by detesters of the game.
I've brought up the subject with a number of my Japanese friends (and their parents, for that matter) and not a single one of them has batted an eyelid. Only about 3 of them even knew what the word meant.

Yes, it does literally translated into "crippled", but dictionary translations are unreliable at best. Context is unbelievably important in Japanese; a lesson that I've learnt the hard way over the past few months.

A geocities list of words really amounts to nothing.

In Australia all profanities are banned from being transmitted via Radio Frequencies, yet I still hear "Shit" and "Fuck" all the time. Lists like that really only serve if someone bothers to ring up and complain.

I'm sure I've posted about this before.
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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by Mercutio » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:34 am

ubergeneral wrote:however two things are worrisome. He doesn't mention that KS is an eroge. That means that no matter how good the writing is or how colorful that characters are eventually there will be porn. It's possible that the writer didn't know this fact and just by reading the demo you wouldn't know this either.

This is the biggest argument as to way there should not be porn in the final product. KS already has 2 strikes against it for being from 4 chan. Now add porn and no matter how tasteful the writing is and no matter well developed the characters are people will not think too highly of this project.
for fuck's sake, man.

first: why are you trying to speak for everybody? "people will not think too highly of this project" if there's sex? bullshit. you're not all people, and not everybody thinks like you. some people will think more highly of KS because there's sex in it (shocking, I know), and they've probably got all kinds of reasons - they might think that it's a good thing that disabled people are shown as being sexy and having sex lives too, they might think it's good that the devs didn't chicken out and act like high school kids aren't actually having sex (the horror! the horror!), or maybe they just like sex scenes in their entertainment.

believe it or not, you can actually have good, quality, artistic entertainment (books, movies, comic books, tv shows, and yes video games) that include sex scenes. just because KS is a visual novel doesn't mean it's suddenly different.

second: it's the devs' game, not yours, not mine. they make it, we just play it. and if I've learned anything about creative works in progress, it's that you don't tell the makers what to do unless you're one of the people making it, you don't tell them to add something or take something out and act like you expect it to happen. you know what you get when you have a creative project with all kinds of outside interference? you get a shitty result. do you want a shitty result? I don't.

...nothing personal, man. I'm just sick as hell of people screaming "CUT OUT THE SEX SCENES! SOMEONE MIGHT NOT LIKE IT!" or acting like it's somehow bad to show people having sex. they're in, that's not changing, get over it.

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Re: Another article about Katawa Shoujo

Post by Member22 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:56 pm

Mercutio wrote:it's the devs' game, not yours, not mine. they make it, we just play it. and if I've learned anything about creative works in progress, it's that you don't tell the makers what to do unless you're one of the people making it, you don't tell them to add something or take something out and act like you expect it to happen. you know what you get when you have a creative project with all kinds of outside interference? you get a shitty result. do you want a shitty result? I don't.
I really think this is the closing argument for the fans/blogs/posts out there complaining about the KS H-scenes issues... I am really tired of this issue... just like the Misha path.

Thanks Mercutio for saying the facts and drawing the line for the other side of the argument
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