How long is Hisao's...

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Der Konzernschef

How long is Hisao's...

Post by Der Konzernschef » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:54 pm

... waiting-time before he finally gets real?

a.k.a how long do you plan to spend on the game, really? with almost no communication of the realease date, it seems like the devs aren't going to finish this game anyway.
why don't you share the progress you made? why don't you let the community know, its getting more complete step by step? why do you let all us of think, the demo ist the status quo and a fullgame never to be realeased? why don't you do something to revive our hope the full game will actually be out someday? can't you just say something like; we have done like 60% or we now finished the hanako route completly? But no, absolutly no communication of this.

you are not developing a bestseller like HL2:EP3 where it is gabe's intention that nothing gets leaked, but this game really lives by the fanbase and you shouldn't try to hide everything you do. because if you do, and the game is actually gonna be finished someday, no one will remember this game. because no one did hear any news of the progress for like a year.


RELEASE DATU FICKING WHERE.
but meh, excuse my bad foreigner-english. also, i am sure this gets deleted as soon as a mod reads it, because of my upset language, but i hope someone will respond to this and try to explain me, why you are using this strategy with your developing progress.

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Caesius
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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by Caesius » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:21 pm

9".


*reads OP*


They're not giving out progress reports because they're never really sure what's done and what's not or how much more they have to go?

The demo alone took years to develop and went through many different iterations; they're naturally going to go at a bit faster pace now that they have the groundwork but they still have a shitton of work to do. Also, have you ever heard of, like, writer's block? Just because this isn't HL2E3 doesn't mean that it should be done in like 4 months.

Why do you care so much anyway? Just be fuckin' patient. There will be people who will follow the game until it comes out as well as the sparse to non-existent progress reports, and just like how interest exploded with the demo after 2 years of being forgotten so will it again when the full game comes out.


Also, it's really annoying when people try to predict in the OP how the evil, intolerant nazi mods will try to shut them down.
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Ninjask
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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by Ninjask » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:27 pm

Image :D

"In before lock xD" comments are not funny nor they do contribute to discussion.

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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by Guest » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:37 pm

On a tangentially related question, are you guys going to stick to the 3 month timeframe for the game? Because that seems like kind of a short time for a romance story.

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Caesius
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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by Caesius » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:41 pm

One point I forgot to mention is that the fact that this is not HL2E3 and they're not being paid for this is exactly why they shouldn't feel bound to a meaningless release date just because people might lose interest. They aren't doing this "for the fans," so if you don't like how they're doing things then that's too bad.

Ninjask wrote:[obnoxiously huge GIF]
Cut that shit out.
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Notguest
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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by Notguest » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:49 pm

Also, I imagine that it is difficult to estimate things like progress or completion date for a huge collaborative project like that.
There's always issues that come up or things you want to put in that you hadn't thought of before, or new people joining or leaving the project or whatever.

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Aura
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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by Aura » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:12 pm

Der Konzernschef wrote:... waiting-time before he finally gets real?

a.k.a how long do you plan to spend on the game, really? with almost no communication of the realease date, it seems like the devs aren't going to finish this game anyway.
why don't you share the progress you made? why don't you let the community know, its getting more complete step by step? why do you let all us of think, the demo ist the status quo and a fullgame never to be realeased? why don't you do something to revive our hope the full game will actually be out someday? can't you just say something like; we have done like 60% or we now finished the hanako route completly? But no, absolutly no communication of this.

you are not developing a bestseller like HL2:EP3 where it is gabe's intention that nothing gets leaked, but this game really lives by the fanbase and you shouldn't try to hide everything you do. because if you do, and the game is actually gonna be finished someday, no one will remember this game. because no one did hear any news of the progress for like a year.


RELEASE DATU FICKING WHERE.
but meh, excuse my bad foreigner-english. also, i am sure this gets deleted as soon as a mod reads it, because of my upset language, but i hope someone will respond to this and try to explain me, why you are using this strategy with your developing progress.
You're kinda rude. What have you done to feel entitled to getting progress reports, your ass wiped and wet bedsheets changed by us? As surprising as this might sound, we are not doing this game for the "community" or "fanbase", it's our own hobby. We really do like people who like KS, and it's great fun to read about playing experiences, go over feedback and see different points of view... that is the biggest reward in making something that others can experience. But ultimately, we don't do this for anyone else's sake than our own, because we don't stand to gain anything no matter how great the final game will be and making a cripple porn game is hardly a "service to community" that one could do out of kindness of heart.

The reason for our "strategy" is twofold: firstly it's not possible to estimate when we are done with any degree of accuracy and if we give some numbers and fail to meet them jerks like you come screaming to us about it which is just stupid, and secondly we generally feel it's a waste of time. Nobody really gains anything even if they know when we release. If one of us feels it would be nice to make an update on the blog, they might do so. It's still going to be pointless.

In short, we owe you nothing so shut the fuck up.



The rest of the thread can be used for discussing whether you feel this is sensible, but nonsensical tangents will lead to lock.
<Aura> would you squeeze a warm PVC bottle between your thighs and call it "manaka-chan"
<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents

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Anonymous22
sounds kinda gay
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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by Anonymous22 » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:18 pm

id software tends to throw out the phrase "it'll be done when it's done" because things change in development and there should never be a situation where quality is compromised to meet a deadline. For a game like this, which has no pre-announced deadline to start with, this applies doubly so. Please understand.
hurr durr

Duo2Cuo
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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by Duo2Cuo » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:00 pm

It's a free fucking game, champ.

It's not like they have any incentive to rush this out the door.

KS time is somewhat similar to Valve time.

-abscess

Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by -abscess » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:16 pm

^ As long as it's not Duke Nukem Forever-time, all is good.

HeMeido
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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by HeMeido » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:24 am

Why did you have to ruin a perfectly decent premise by not asking about the size of Hisao's penis?

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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by Fronzel » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:56 am

☆♥Aura♥☆ wrote:You're kinda rude.
Aura's understatement is so moe.

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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by Guest » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:38 am

I have worked on free games (distributed over the internet) myself and this is a very, very familiar kind of post to me. Every once in a while, a visitor drops by, realizes his favorite game is STILL not finished and decides it's time to do what needs to be done.

What's interesting is that nag posts like these ALWAYS follow a familiar structure as if they were written by a single person. Here's a couple of them, just because I'm in an analyzing mood:


- The "You are responsible for the timespan required to complete the game yourself and you're drawing things out on purpose"-element.

Example:
[/quote]how long do you plan to spend on the game, really?[/quote]

The big brother of this one is the "I bet you already have the finished game ready and you're withholding it from us"-argument. The purpose of this element is to convince the developers that they could finish up the job quickly, if only they'd want it as badly as the post writer wants it.


- The reverse psychology.

Example:
it seems like the devs aren't going to finish this game anyway.
This one ALWAYS comes up. "The game's not gonna be finished. Admit it. Just frikking admit it!!!!" The purpose of this element is to "motivate" the development team by applying reverse psychology. The poster has just stated, in front of the entire world, that the game is not going to be finished and now the only way the developers can debunk this horrible lie is by proving him wrong by releasing the game...this minute if you please. For maximum effect, repeat the same thing several times in a row, only slightly reworded each time.


- "We, the people".

Example:
why don't you let the community know
I love this one. The poster subconciously knows that he's merely a single person, so in order to add weight to his argument, he throws up the "I'm just saying what everyone's thinking"-ball. By pretending to speak for the entire community, he tries to increase the impact of his post and circumvent thread locking by suggesting that if they'll silence him, they'll silence the entire fanbase. And you don't want to do that, do ya?


- The invisible stockholder.

Example:
this game really lives by the fanbase
Another favorite of mine. Since the team is working on a non-profit basis and the team is not an officially registered business entity, there are no official stock holders, that's why that role is taken over by whoever comes by and pays attention to your project. This argument exists to remind and convince the development team that: "Even though we don't pay you money, we are in fact paying you through our praise, which definitely DOES make us entitled to complain if things aren't moving as fast as we'd like them to, since we all know the difference between cash and praise isn't all that significant". Oh, and nagging fans NEVER accept refunds on praise. They paid and now it's up to you to deliver what you owe them.


- The unfair comparison.

Semi-Example:
you are not developing a bestseller like HL2:EP3
Whiners often complain that commercial companies do have transparent timeframes and can chuck out top-of-the-bill technological wonders at a relatively fast pace. After all, if it didn't take Valve years to release HL2:EP3, it shouldn't take you guys years to finish something much more technologically low-key. They conveniently forget that timeframes are easier to make if people consistently work on something because it's their paid job and that commercial games these days often have a big budget and over 100 people working on them.


- The percentage fetish

Example:
can't you just say something like; we have done like 60%
This one always comes up too. The complainer believes himself to be clever and thinks that if he can just get a percentage, he can precisely calculcate the month, day and hour the game will be finished and the torture the devs are pulling on him will end. The poster spends much of his day looking at percentages as he downloads his cracked games and leaked movies off the intarweb and bittorrent and has come to associate waiting with looking at percentages increasing like his browser and bittorrent conveniently give him. And make no mistake, when someone asks for a percentage of the game being completed, he's REALLY asking for a percentage of the time he has to wait. Of course, game development in one's spare time is never consistent enough for percentages but meh...


- More progress updates!

Example:
why don't you share the progress you made?
And we're not talking about monthly or even weekly progress. We're talking about having something new to share every time the visitor hits his F5 key. Some of the true gems I've seen in my time were statements like: "I've spent months checking your site TWICE A DAY and there's still no progress update!!!" Yeah, people can get laughably desperate over the smallest things. It remains to be seen whether having to spend 50% of the time you spend on developing a game writing to the fans about what you've done today is gonna get the game out sooner, but everybody knows that it's better to wait 15 minutes in line with something to keep you occupied than 8 minutes waiting in line staring at the ceiling. The whiner's ideal development team is a team that spends 99% of the time making site updates and 1% working on the actual game, since his ADD-ridden ass at least has something to do that doesn't involve waiting. It basically says the complainer has too much free time and nothing productive to do with it.


- The ticking time bomb

Example:
because if you do, and the game is actually gonna be finished someday, no one will remember this game. because no one did hear any news of the progress for like a year.
Also known as: "If you don't give me the game now, I'm gonna leave and never come back. You're losing fans, man!!!" Again, this argument exists to put pressure on the team. They're in a race against time. If they don't finish the game quickly, there'll be nobody left to play it. (this goes back to the "praise is as good as money"-element) This is of course a fallacy, since the majority of people who downloaded the demo will play it, semi-forget about the game while they go on with life and regain interest when the full game is out. Of course, even the people who MAKE this argument and then leave when their demands aren't satisfied STILL come back and play the game when it's out. Don't worry, they will.


- The release date trap

Example:
RELEASE DATU FICKING WHERE
In a complainer's mind, there is no difference between "We will absolutely, positively release the game on december the 3rd." and "If everything goes well, there's a chance the game might be suitable for alpha testing around december or so, give or take a few months." The two are absolute identical twins. What he's really asking you is a date to pin you on, so he can come back that day and call you a liar because the inevitable unexpected delays snuck into your planning. And make no mistake, he WILL take that date seriously, even if he practically waterboarded it out of you. Again, he's not asking at what day the game will be finished, he's asking what day he can stop waiting and anticipating.


- The victim reversal

Example:
(read between the lines)

Boy, those developers sure are to be envied. All they have to do is write the paths, draw the graphics, compose the music, script the stuff together and direct what could be a 1000+ page mess into an organised whole, while we, the fans, have to wait. Oh, the unfairness. Yeah, waiting is hard. Harder than developing a game. You're having fun all the time. We're not. Because we're waiting. So we're the victims. That invalidates every counterargument you could make, so don't bother. We're entitled to complain because we're victims. You're making us wait. Bad you.


- The tester trap

Example:
"If you need any testers to speed things up, I could help."

Not stated in the original post, but for the sake of completeness. Don't ever take testers who have complained about the game taking too long in the past. Posts like these show a lack of attention span and the rest of the fans will have to wait because you let an impatient nag on your team who'll play through once and then moves on while that slot could have been filled by a dedicated tester. He's not offering to speed up development. He's offering to shorten his own waiting period.


As development goes on, you'll probably get an increasing amount of certified nags whose posts contain at least 2 to 3 elements described here in one way or another. You're doing a pretty good job with the updates as is. The blog is updated a whole lot more than the site of the game I used to work on, since we preferred only to share true landmark developments. So good job. If people have so much free time on their hands to require progress updates more than once or twice a month, they usually have bigger problems that aren't your responsibility to solve.

Good luck on the rest of the game.


P.s: I could probably look up some study that indicates the internet has negatively affected people's attention spans, but I don't have the patience for that. :mrgreen:

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Aura
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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by Aura » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:20 am

You could become an excellent TvTropes contributor. Consider, if you already are not.
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<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents

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Re: How long is Hisao's...

Post by Tsundere Lightning » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:30 am

Duo2Cuo wrote:It's a free fucking game, champ.

It's not like they have any incentive to rush this out the door.

KS time is somewhat similar to Valve time.
Blizzard has the same policy as well... and the polish on their games shows it.

This game is pretty damn polished. I don't care if it takes 3 months or three years for the final release, if the final release is 20+ hours of awesome.

Although, an earlier question was asked which I think deserves an answer -
Will the entire game take place in the span of 3 months, as the original doujin art suggested?
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