In regards to Shizune

[stalk]

I also noticed that it isn't an exact translation (not sure if such a thing would be practical, let alone possible), so much as an interpretation. In the first video I linked there is nothing too obvious in the English lyrics to indicate that the singer is a vampire; it is all subtly implied. Yet when the words "I take a lonely waitress home to drink," occur, the signer pokes his neck with two fingers and appears to mime drinking from a cup. That's quite a bit more obvious to my mind, but may be necessary to get the song's humor across.

Yeah you have to understand that sign language is a visual language. Even I have a hard time coming up with a subtle translation for it in sign language. Trying to accurately demostrate the subtely would end up changing the entire meaning of the song to something completely unrelated. So it falls under one of those "it can't be helped" categories.

[vermithrx]

I also noticed that it isn't an exact translation (not sure if such a thing would be practical, let alone possible), so much as an interpretation. In the first video I linked there is nothing too obvious in the English lyrics to indicate that the singer is a vampire; it is all subtly implied. Yet when the words "I take a lonely waitress home to drink," occur, the signer pokes his neck with two fingers and appears to mime drinking from a cup. That's quite a bit more obvious to my mind, but may be necessary to get the song's humor across.

Yeah you have to understand that sign language is a visual language. Even I have a hard time coming up with a subtle translation for it in sign language. Trying to accurately demostrate the subtely would end up changing the entire meaning of the song to something completely unrelated. So it falls under one of those "it can't be helped" categories.

That makes me curious about something. Because it is a visual language, is it more difficult to express abstract concepts in it, like democracy, socialism, Zen, or stoicism? Eh, "isms," in general I guess. Do they ever come up in casual conversation? Maybe I just can't concieve it because I don't know how you'd go about it.

Edit: Nevermind, it was a silly question. There's nothing about speech or writing that would make it intuitive to express such things through them, so signing wouldn't be any different. Yet we manage to do so, whatever language we end up using. I hadn't thought that through.

[Envy]

Hearing people have this annoying habit of talking without eye contact. This drives us (myself included) batty.

You can't really blame us hearing people for not using eye contact because we don't need eye contact to engage a person.

It is somewhat important to hold eye contact because if you do it tells the other person you have a degree of confidence but I wouldn't seriously hold it against someone who found it uncomfortable.

[Fir3y]

I have a lot of trouble with maintaining eye contact, personally. Part of it may be because I have a lot of time focusing on anything for too long. I grow really uncomfortable the longer I do it so I'm constantly looking around, regardless if I'm talking to someone or not.

I also get uncomfortable when someone stares into my eyes too long. But, I can see how that might get annoying.

[Caesius]

I also get uncomfortable when someone stares into my eyes too long. But, I can see how that might get annoying.

The maximum time someone can look directly into another person's eyes without it becoming uncomfortable (or romantic) is about 3 seconds.

For some people it's a lot shorter than that

[Cayle]

In an addition, it's not that I despise the person for it. It's just... well, if you see someone speaking french, how often do we go up to them and try to speak the few words we know to them?

Oui, oui! Bon, bon! Huhuhuh, poisson!

It might be funny but it's this quote from Caesius that finally made me register in order to post a comment here after rushing through the twelve pages of this thread :p

First i'd like to thank the 4LS team for their dedication and great work on this game since i've seen that Aura and Envy seem to came here now and then.
Then i'd have to thank Stalk and the others for their "open mindedness" that make this thread possible because i've learn a lot of things here and i will try not to be a total idiot next time i meet with a deaf person .

When i'm watching TV news this days I'm pretty much pessimistic about our world but i'm regularly abashed by what i can find on internet and how people here from all over the world and with completly different life experiences can regroup and understand each other and for me it's kind of a Light in the Dark : it makes me hope that maybe, in the future, humanity in general will be more tolerant and less destructive.

Lastly, and very much less seriously :p, I want to know how did you choose your French words Caesius ? :p Because, you see, I'm French myself and I burst out laughing 5 complete minutes after reeding your post :p

[Nachoman]

Stalk:
Have you thought about buying some submergible speakers and installing them on your bath-tube, on a water mattress or even even just a pillow speaker sandwiched between some gel-packs inside a pillowcase?
Although, I must admit that underwater speakers are Expensive. Pillow speakers are very cheap, though.

About singers not being confident enough about letting you place your hands on their chests as they sing, I would think it also has to do with keeping their concentration in face of the alien contact. On my vocal training, I’ve learned how to fine-tune my entire body: turn my legs into rock-solid pillars in order for them to reflect up the vibration rather than absorb it; my back goes stiff as a board, same reason; my abdominal muscles have to be very well warmed up, ready to expand very fast, always remain as tense as possible in order to amplify sound and to create impacts that are much better achieved there than on the chest cavity; I fine-tune my chest by warming up my forearms, then I fine tune my expansions and contractions. This is particularly critical when I need my full basso profondo range, as I need to keep my chest fully expanded and breathe exclusively with my abdomen. Then I warm up my facial muscles and loosen up my neck before stiffening it before each song.
By now warming up my vocal cords would seem like an afterthought, but all of the previous I can do in five minutes, ready for ten minutes of minimal warm up before singing “normal”, or twenty minutes before singing with my full range.
Of course, by the time I’m done warming up, I’m as tense as boxer. Once I’m singing, I devote about half of my concentration exclusively on breathing control and on keeping up the mostly-isometric contractions. The other half is mostly devoted toward monitoring the song and the remaining interpreters. I wouldn’t want to include the added concentration of keeping my chest pressed against the hand of a jumpy lady; one that I can feel will jump away (and break my concentration) when I hit a high vibrato.
And then there’s also the altered perception between having air in front of me or having a body that will reflect my voice right back at me. Your pitch perception changes (in my case I listen from the air my voice being two tones lower than I can hear from my own bones), you subconsciously adjust the pitch and by the time you notice, you are missing the tone by a mile.
Better do yourself and the singer a favour and ask them if you can stand beside them and place your hand on one of their collarbones. Then just press down your hand into the shoulder rather than into the chest, and reassure the singer that you will keep your hand there until he or she’s done. That’ll be a different tangent than the rock versus hard place of “risking my concentration” versus “not letting the nice lady hear the song”.

And, don’t you worry about rising Cthulhu. Tone-deaf people tend to shoot up. As you are tone, pitch and volume deaf, just be sure to not sing near crystal ware. Besides, if anybody was to raise Cthulhu, that be me singing in German or performing the declamation of “Mexico: I Believe In You”.

Now, I know you don’t like people asking you, but could you point me at some online learning resources for ASL? I’ll admit that I don’t care a great deal about learning it, but I’m in tourism and would need to know enough to say “Good morning”, “This guy will guide you to your room”, “your transport is waiting” and “I’ll solve that problem”.

[Krull]

If Shizune could,or can,read lips I'd drive the poor thing batshit.....you see I can talk without moving my lips very much if at all

I also heal strangly fast,guess I'm something of a mutant

[stalk]

I've been busy so I probably wont be able to catch up with all the stuff until later tonight or tomorrow. Sorry! Also I'll be at fanime con if anyone is going..