I would like to see the music redone

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Cirno
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by Cirno » Mon May 11, 2009 1:20 am

If something in a track is jarring or draws attention to itself by being awkward it can be distracting, and should be changed to be not distracting. I'll offer my thoughts as a musician.

The vast majority of the music is done quite well and sits perfectly fine in the game and really doesn't need to be redone, but there are two things that I can remember straight away as being distracting when I heard them:
  • The glissando on the weird synth bell thing in The Student Council is way over the top. The notes in the accompaniment are perfectly fine, but they take so long to shift and have such a delayed attack that it just doesn't mesh well with the rest of the song. It's like they can't keep up and just stumble along. Simply changing the instrument to one with significantly less pitch shifting and a faster attack would probably make this track one of my favorite in the soundtrack.
  • High Tension - This track is rough. There are seams where some parts of it repeat. It would probably also be better just to end the crescendos on a really full B than a B/C dissonance, as I find rendering from a midi source typically just doesn't do dissonance well, especially with horn patches. This just sounded extremely fake and jarring to me the first time I heard it.
  • Cold Iron - This has pretty interesting composition, I just find that the main instrument used in the high-pitched lead parts is disproportionately loud / edgy. I'd try experimenting around with it.
Of course, I don't have the source files here to work with and do all the trial-and-error that goes into digital composition, so I can't say for sure if these changes would sound better. It's just a hunch.

Overall, though, the music adds to the game. That is the Final Destination and the composers deserve due credit.

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janz
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by janz » Mon May 11, 2009 1:47 am

I agree with this post. Some music,sorry to say, just made my head explode.
I had to turn off the volume for several background music. And it's not about the quality of sound, just the tunes were so strange.

standing tall and passing of time are the ones made my head explode. I thought others were pretty good.
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silverleaftree
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by silverleaftree » Mon May 11, 2009 3:46 am

I actually really liked Daylight's dissonance. It adds a sense of awkwardness that also comes up somewhat often in the game's writing. The first time I heard the dissonance, it kind of took me aback; just like how it was when we meet the girls first for the first time.

Its also strange enough to make it stand out from the rest of the soundtrack. Someone earlier mentioned that it's kinda like the harvest moon soundtrack (this is just an example of how a little quirkiness like dissonance can stick with you for a long time). I'm not saying that things should be dissonant just for the sake of being different, but if everything else is done well there is no reason to add a little spice to make it more memorable.

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EvilDragon
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by EvilDragon » Mon May 11, 2009 4:21 am

I really hated that pitch bend in Daylight :/ Sounds really out of place and breaks the mood of the song.

I think only one of those two notes pitch bending should sound. Also, that kind of pitch bending is really really hard to do on acoustic guitar. I really propose that to be changed somehow - preferably to two guitars over two different MIDI channels playing a better-controlled slide. It's all about pitch bend here, and it can sound good if some effort is put into it (editing pitch bend events into a curve that is non-linear).

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EvilDragon
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by EvilDragon » Mon May 11, 2009 4:26 am

Warwick wrote:In fact, due to their nature as MIDI's, importing them into a DAW is extremely time consuming and impractical.
Not really. I have Cakewalk Sonar 7 and importing MIDIs is not a chore of any kind. I import the MIDI, it creates all the channels that are used in the MIDI file, and I link the outputs of every channel to various VSTs for giving better sound. Then I'm off to editing phrasing and dynamics and articulations that will make things sound better.

I would say that FL Studio is even faster in this regard, and has better Piano roll for editing.

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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by Guest » Mon May 11, 2009 7:29 am

silverleaftree wrote:I actually really liked Daylight's dissonance. It adds a sense of awkwardness that also comes up somewhat often in the game's writing. The first time I heard the dissonance, it kind of took me aback; just like how it was when we meet the girls first for the first time.
That's quite an outsider-art perspective on a part that personally made me laugh the first time I heard it, and distract me from the dialogue every other time.

The rest of the music was alright, didn't distract me as much as that bit did/does.

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DeliciouslyAtrocious
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by DeliciouslyAtrocious » Mon May 11, 2009 10:51 am

mallory wrote:Am I the only one who likes the pitch shift... D:?
I like it too. I actually wait for it when I'm playing, haha.
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Severyo
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by Severyo » Mon May 11, 2009 11:32 am

To be honest, if the music is good enough to have people on 4chan asking for it, then it's done exactly what it was supposed to.

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EvilDragon
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by EvilDragon » Mon May 11, 2009 11:34 am

The point is that it can be even better. It can be droolable. It can have more feel to it.

It can be even more demandable!

And I'm not saying anything about changing the notes or arrangement, just using higher quality virtual instruments and tweaking the dynamics of the notes, and articulations and stuff. That can make a high-profile production that would be very appealing to the general crowd. For example, take a listen of FSN soundtrack, it's high-profile and it stands out.

The moment I saw the artwork of KS the first word entering my mind was "high-profile", especially the character sprites. Backgrounds are derived from real-life photos, but they are well-processed and fit in the general concept. IMHO, music is, while the composition is very good (apart from the infamous pitch bend XD), mediocre production-wise. I saw the space for improvement, and I suggested my facilities to the devs. I'm eager in awaiting the reply.

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Warwick
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by Warwick » Mon May 11, 2009 5:27 pm

jingplusone wrote:And in regards to Student Council, I find the busy/jumbled sounding piece to fit well with Shizune and Misha's character. Since they're in the Student Council and are supposed to have a clear direction and purpose but in reality they're not as organized and streamlined as people would expect and in fact are rather whimsical girls doing things as they please.
Oh I'm not complaining about that at all (or at least, that's not my main quibble). I'm asking for the composer to pay more attention to phrasing and the shape of the melody. I'm fairly accepting of the wandering tune, because like you said, it brings a whimsical air to the relatively business-like tone of the piece.
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yujovi
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by yujovi » Mon May 11, 2009 10:38 pm

If you want redos, make a sample and post it. Redoing the music just on command isn't quite easy/possible right now since the composer for all the original music quit, and now Blue123 is making music, so we already have a good source of new music, since what Blue's done is pretty damn good. So, again, you want stuff replaced, make it and we'll consider. Otherwise, this is something that we're not going to put on high priority.

We are still working on this game. There are some people who like some aspects of the release, and some people who dislike the same parts. We can't cater to every single opinion, but we are trying to make this the best game we can make, and we aren't slacking off in any parts of it. The music will be different when we release KS, and we are getting more music. We just can't accommodate every single dissatisfaction.

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EvilDragon
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by EvilDragon » Tue May 12, 2009 3:41 am

yujovi wrote:If you want redos, make a sample and post it. Redoing the music just on command isn't quite easy/possible right now since the composer for all the original music quit, and now Blue123 is making music, so we already have a good source of new music, since what Blue's done is pretty damn good. So, again, you want stuff replaced, make it and we'll consider. Otherwise, this is something that we're not going to put on high priority.
It's not that stuff is wanted to be replaced (except for the obnoxious and distractive pitch bend XD)... just made to sound better, better mix, better production. I would like to show what I mean by that, but I would need at least one MIDI file to do so. I can afford taking my free time to produce the songs, but making my own MIDI by listening the song would take too much of my time, with college and everything.

That's why I'm asking if it's possible at all to share the MIDI resources that were used to make the OST.

For the record, here's the virtual instruments that I have worked hard for, and that can be of great use to you:

Pianoteq 3
EastWest Symphonic Orchestra Gold XP
EastWest Colossus
Best Service Ethno World 4 (ethnic instruments from around the world)
Native Instruments Absynth 4 (great for atmospheres and SFX)
Native Instruments B4-II (Hammond organ)
Native Instruments Pro-53
Native Instruments FM-8
Cakewalk Dimension Pro
Cakewalk Rapture
Toontrack EZdrummer (with DFH and Latin Percussion add-ons)
XLN Audio Addictive Drums
VAZ Modular 3
Korg Legacy Collection Digital (loads of bells and whistles, legendary synths)
GForce impOSCar
GForce Minimonsta
GForce M-Tron

There are some other free or shareware plugins (like OLGA, SQ8L, etc.) that I can use. As you can see, the potential for great sound quality is here. I really cannot see a big reason for not using these resources... unless you don't have the original MIDI files or something like that. I am highly collaborative and I could get in touch with Blue123 and/or cpl_crud if they would like to polish the stuff up, and they both, being connected to music, should be aware of the possibilities of the above mentioned instruments at least.

EDIT: For example, that Moonlight thing Blue123 posted to me sounds way better produced than any song in the demo OST.

Blue123
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by Blue123 » Tue May 12, 2009 4:11 am

Well, I originally said it would be troublesome to do because I would have to spend time fiddling around with the MIDI files, and giving further instruction as to the makeup of the piece. We're also not really keen on giving out the MIDIs, either. But we'll see. It depends on the approval of the other devs.

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EvilDragon
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by EvilDragon » Tue May 12, 2009 4:15 am

OK, then I will be anxiously waiting for the response!

Btw, "fiddling around with the midi files"? You don't use them when writing stuff for KS, or something like that? ...

What I had in mind is - the track is done, the MIDI is sent, the sounds wanted are told, I find those sounds and make individual tracks per MIDI channel, then send them to you for final mixdown. I can also make my version of mix if the need be.


EDIT: for posting the sound example, here's something little that I have done some time ago, my first try with atmospheric electronica...

http://www.box.net/shared/2sdoiiakho

Bass can be tamed down if necessary, but I think it's the perfect kinda-spooky background, let's say something Hanako-related maybe :)

In essence this is just a mild example of the quality of sound that can be had, this was made in 45 minutes really...

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Paragon
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Re: I would like to see the music redone

Post by Paragon » Tue May 12, 2009 7:26 pm

I asked for the MIDIs in another thread (to learn the notes for a guitar-based remix of a song or two), and the devs seemed a little insulted -- so I wouldn't hold your breath on getting them. Who knows, though?
Last edited by Paragon on Tue May 12, 2009 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stupid internet! Why can't you understand how I feel...?

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