Shizunes Route Analysis, 7 Years Later

A forum for general discussion of the game: Open to all punters
Post Reply
User avatar
ArcCain
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:00 am
Location: The internet.

Shizunes Route Analysis, 7 Years Later

Post by ArcCain » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:31 pm

I saw this today and noticed that it was made before Christmas last year. To find a analysis video seven years later is definitely unexpected but not unwelcome. I remember seeing some heated debates about Shizune's route way back and watching this makes me wonder if this is what Anon22 was trying to convey. I hope I don't risk incurring any wrath by asking for your thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkSh7P-OctA
A good writer knows his limits. A great writer finds ways around them.

User avatar
Mirage_GSM
Posts: 5949
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:24 am
Location: Germany

Re: Shizunes Route Analysis, 7 Years Later

Post by Mirage_GSM » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:59 pm

Okay, there are a few glaring mistakes - like Misha coming to Yamaku "to be with Shizune" or "contemplating suicide" - and a lot of omissions, especially in the description of the paths after the choice point... And given how insistent the maker of this video is to prove his point I can't help but think that those omissions are intentional.
Both branches after the choice point go on for several chapters, and his summary is basically "Choice one leads to a good end that resolves nothing, and the other leads to both of them going to Shizune "the next day"[sic] to tell her they don't like her anymore."
Regardless of my own opinion of Shizune's route (I also think it is the weakest of the five) THAT description does not do it justice.
Also writing Shizune off as a sadistic bitch is ignoring a few key points from her good end path which I guess he just skimmed over at that point...
Equating the H-scene in Shizune's house to rape ignores the fact that Hisao had every oportunity to both resist being bound, make his displeasure known with his face - or in the worst case even call for help at any point - it's not he who is mute.

Finally and perhaps most importantly - of course you can interpret almost anything as being intentional by the creator, but...
All the writers of KS did stellar jobs, and even Shizune's route is better and more enjoyable to read than some routes I've seen in professional publications, but if there are two options and one is that A22 is a writing god on par with a reincarnated Shakespeare and the other one is that he had a bit of a rough and long-winded writing style, then I'm going to aply Occam's Razor - no offense to A22 if he reads this :-)

TL:DR: I think that analysis is mostly bullshit.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

User avatar
ArcCain
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:00 am
Location: The internet.

Re: Shizunes Route Analysis, 7 Years Later

Post by ArcCain » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:33 am

Yeah. I was thinking about it last night after posting and I started remembering some things from the route which were omitted or put in the wrong order. Like Shizune opening up to Hisao is only in the good ending branch after she and Misha have had their talk. I don't remember if she realises what she's been doing or not but it does lead into the ending where she wants to start helping people (I think that's what she wants). So you are right, his analysis is flawed.
Last edited by ArcCain on Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A good writer knows his limits. A great writer finds ways around them.

User avatar
Mirage_GSM
Posts: 5949
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:24 am
Location: Germany

Re: Shizunes Route Analysis, 7 Years Later

Post by Mirage_GSM » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:38 am

Yes, that life goal she's set herself is not something she only realizes in her good path - it's just that only in that path does she tell Hisao about it.
It's a bit corny, but at the very least it is an attempt by A22 to make Shizune more sympathetic and likeable, so that alone disproves the opinion of the maker of that video. If A22 had wanted to make Shizune an unlikeable bitch so bad that he consciously degraded his own writing, why would he add that into the good path?
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

User avatar
ArcCain
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:00 am
Location: The internet.

Re: Shizunes Route Analysis, 7 Years Later

Post by ArcCain » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:40 am

I always saw it as A22 having an idea he wanted to do but stumbled a little. Shizune's route, for all the flack its gotten over the years, was still full of hilarious and heavy moments like Shizune's dad and Misha opening up to Hisao. Aura made it very clear in both the blogs and Ask thread that they held a high standard when writing, so if A22 was trying to sabotage the story on purpose I think the others would have stepped in like they did in Hanako's story (although crud didn't try to sabotage it, he just had another direction which he himself realised wasn't the right one).
A good writer knows his limits. A great writer finds ways around them.

User avatar
Mirage_GSM
Posts: 5949
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:24 am
Location: Germany

Re: Shizunes Route Analysis, 7 Years Later

Post by Mirage_GSM » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:53 am

Huh? "Sabotage" is quite a strong word. To even consider anyone who put this much time and effort into a project deliberately trying to sabotage it is kind of way out there...
And frankly it someone really wanted to sabotage a project there would be way more efficient ways to do that than using run-on sentences in the route they're writing and dragging a few scenes out for longer than they'd need to be.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.

User avatar
ArcCain
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:00 am
Location: The internet.

Re: Shizunes Route Analysis, 7 Years Later

Post by ArcCain » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:28 pm

I am using his words (the video) not my own. I do not believe anyone in the KS team tried to sabotage the project. At least not any of the final team members.
A good writer knows his limits. A great writer finds ways around them.

User avatar
Oddball
Posts: 2804
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:05 pm

Re: Shizunes Route Analysis, 7 Years Later

Post by Oddball » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:13 pm

Sorry. I couldn't even watch that video. It took less than a minute for me to be able to tell that guy had no clue what he was talking about.
Not Dead Yet

ProfAllister
Posts: 483
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Shizunes Route Analysis, 7 Years Later

Post by ProfAllister » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:17 pm

While I haven't watched that video, I figure I know exactly which one it is based on context. I've heard a few people chattering about this video. You can tell that the guy is interested in serious discussion and analysis by the fact that he deletes any comment that disagrees with him. ¬_¬

Unlike most of the commenters so far, I actually consider Shizune's route to be among the best of the bunch. It's not perfect by any stretch, and it's got it's problems, but it's easily got the most layers you can peel back on subsequent reads.

When I played Shizune's route once, I was angry and confused. When I played it a second time, I was fascinated by its depth and nuance and how it managed to "break the rules" for what's expected of a romance VN. When I played it a third time, I was amazed at how much I had missed the first two times through.

As for a22's involvement in it all, I've done a bit of detective work to track down what I could about a22 a few times. Predictably, the answer was "not much". But what I did learn was that a22 was one of the earliest members of the project, and was heavily responsible for most of the secondary and tertiary characters, as well as a pretty huge chunk of Act 1. Add in the various times he's spoken in blog posts and this very forum, I get the sense that he put his heart and soul into this project (which probably led to some degree of burnout). Honestly, the fact that "his girl" is often referred to as "Worst Girl" or "Worst Route", and there are so many apocryphal rumors (regarding him quitting, wanting a different girl, and/or Shizune's route being a rough half-assed job shat out at the last minute) is, to be quite honest, kind of criminal.

I get that there's no accounting for taste, and people will like (or dislike) what they will, but it still kind of sucks that a22 is the red-headed stepchild of the KS writers.
Current Project: Misha Pseudo-Route

Discord ID: ProfAllister#9754

Post Reply