A question regarding license

[salad]

Dear developers!

I'm making a video game currently. I'm planning to sell it.
The whole life changing motivation to stop fucking around in my life, and start working/learning/doing productive things like creating a video game, came from your game. And I would really like to include a few things in my game from Katawa Shoujo.
I have to add that my game will be an adventure game, not a visual novel.

I read the FAQ about the game, and in my understanding, the thing I want, is allowed, but I don't want to do it unless you allow me.
So basically, in my game's story, there will be several female characters.
I would like to include some of the girls from Katawa Shoujo with a slightly different names and looks. Their personalities will be completely different.
So basically, if you play my game, and you played Katawa Shoujo before, then you might recognize the girls, if you are pay enough attention, because it will be subtle.
Also, I'm planning them as side characters, or minor characters with a few lines.
So in short: I don't want to steal your work. I only want to make minor hints.

So I need to ask you, that is this allowed or not.

Thank you for your reply.

Regards,
Salad

[Kutagh]

IANAL and not member of 4LS but:
Katawa Shoujo has bene released, according to the About page, with the CC BY-NC-ND license. This means: Attribution, non-commercial, no derivatives: 99% chance that it is NOT allowed (selling your game = commercial usage). If you were not to sell your game, but release it for free (not requesting donations for it etc and not introducing any barriers to downloading, such as mandatory registration), then I'd assume that, with the current description given, that it probably would not be considered a derivative work and with the appropriate attribution it would be allowed.

[salad]

First of all, thank you for the info!

Let me ask this: in the game called: "Papers Please", you can encounter an npc, called Rin Katawa which resembles Rin Tezuka of course.
http://papersplease.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_names
Papers Please has been out there for years, and it's not free.
Following this logic, my game would have the same subtlety, and the same amount of use like Papers Please(you can randomly encounter her, also, you see her for a short time).
I'm planning to do the same. The characters would be 1-2 liner NPCs, with names and looks resembling the original girls. So basically, they would be easter-eggs.
What do you think?
Should I drop the idea and leave them out entirely? I really don't want any kind of problem from this, but it would be awesome to do.

[Riakai]

First of all, thank you for the info!

Let me ask this: in the game called: "Papers Please", you can encounter an npc, called Rin Katawa which resembles Rin Tezuka of course.
http://papersplease.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_names
Papers Please has been out there for years, and it's not free.
Following this logic, my game would have the same subtlety, and the same amount of use like Papers Please(you can randomly encounter her, also, you see her for a short time).
I'm planning to do the same. The characters would be 1-2 liner NPCs, with names and looks resembling the original girls. So basically, they would be easter-eggs.
What do you think?
Should I drop the idea and leave them out entirely? I really don't want any kind of problem from this, but it would be awesome to do.

The character Rin Katawa was removed, according to the exact list you linked. So, uh...

[salad]

Yes, you are right, excuse me.

[cpl_crud]

I think if you are just making a reference then there is no real issue.

If you are point-for-point ripping off the ideas and themes of the game then it is different. The Rin Katawa example sounds fine to me to be honest.

If you are talking about background characters, and you are writing/drawing them yourself then I am not that fussed about it.

Of course, if you lift any of the text/art/music/code then that is a totally different story and completely against the licence

[Aura]

The Rin Katawa example is fine because it's a small reference embedded into a meaningless detail. The character named Rin Katawa wouldn't resemble Rin in any way, and the character was one of dozens of randomly generated ones you'd possibly meet during a playthrough, with no actual bearing to the story of PP. It was a complete background detail. When references start getting more prominent than that, you're getting close to crossing the line where it's not cool anymore.

Food for thought: why do you think PP removed all copyrighted names/references? I guarantee none of the rights holders asked them to.

[brythain]

The Rin Katawa example is fine because it's a small reference embedded into a meaningless detail.

I'm not sure if this would be better in the 'Ask' thread, but since the topic has arisen here, let me ask here:

Suppose I produced a work in which one of my characters was said to "have a poster of Hanako Ikezawa from a famous VN" on his wall, and a sketch of said poster was shown in that work, and 4LS was credited at the end of the work (or beginning, wherever the credits are), would you be happy with that?

[Aura]

What is this, trying to probe ways to maximize your KS references? Since you asked whether I'd be happy about this, you're getting an unsolicited opinion. No, I wouldn't be happy. I cringe every time these questions pop up, because references like these are nearly always horribly bad ideas and make the works they are in worse.

But yeah, sure it's fine to mention KS. No different from mentioning the character has a poster of Leonardo DiCaprio as Jack from Titanic or they listen to Pink Floyd. Note that just like you couldn't use any actual Titanic posters or Pink Floyd songs, you can't use any actual KS material. This includes things like KS logo and Hanako's likeness, so you'd need to ask for permission for those if you want to show the poster.

[brythain]

What is this, trying to probe ways to maximize your KS references? Since you asked whether I'd be happy about this, you're getting an unsolicited opinion. No, I wouldn't be happy. I cringe every time these questions pop up, because references like these are nearly always horribly bad ideas and make the works they are in worse.

But yeah, sure it's fine to mention KS. No different from mentioning the character has a poster of Leonardo DiCaprio as Jack from Titanic or they listen to Pink Floyd. Note that just like you couldn't use any actual Titanic posters or Pink Floyd songs, you can't use any actual KS material. This includes things like KS logo and Hanako's likeness, so you'd need to ask for permission for those if you want to show the poster.

Thanks very much. I was just wondering because IRL some people do indeed have Hanako posters up in their rooms, just as they do for any other character they feel some relationship to.

[salad]

Thanks everyone for your replies.
Basically I will be making small references like PP. Nothing more.
Now I can work peacefully on the story knowing I'm not doing anything hurtful.
But when I'm done, I will post the list of the references here, so you can check it, in order to avoid any problem.

[Riakai]

Food for thought: why do you think PP removed all copyrighted names/references? I guarantee none of the rights holders asked them to.

I know their system of adding names was along the lines of a submission system; the way it looks is that they didn't look too deep into the names until that one specific release, where they removed fucking dozens of names. My guess'd be that they just wanted to avoid possible flak so instead of taking a casual approach, they cracked t'f down.

[Valjean Lafitte]

The Rin Katawa example is fine because it's a small reference embedded into a meaningless detail.

I'm not sure if this would be better in the 'Ask' thread, but since the topic has arisen here, let me ask here:

Suppose I produced a work in which one of my characters was said to "have a poster of Hanako Ikezawa from a famous VN" on his wall, and a sketch of said poster was shown in that work, and 4LS was credited at the end of the work (or beginning, wherever the credits are), would you be happy with that?

What is this, trying to probe ways to maximize your KS references? Since you asked whether I'd be happy about this, you're getting an unsolicited opinion. No, I wouldn't be happy. I cringe every time these questions pop up, because references like these are nearly always horribly bad ideas and make the works they are in worse.

But yeah, sure it's fine to mention KS. No different from mentioning the character has a poster of Leonardo DiCaprio as Jack from Titanic or they listen to Pink Floyd. Note that just like you couldn't use any actual Titanic posters or Pink Floyd songs, you can't use any actual KS material. This includes things like KS logo and Hanako's likeness, so you'd need to ask for permission for those if you want to show the poster.

It's odd that neither of you mentioned that nearly the exact same scenario played out last year:



He asked for permission of course, but if he had to get permission to use Hanako's likeness, shouldn't he have also asked RAITA for his blessing? The poster is using one of Hanako's KS designs (the hat, at the very least, being a Weee creation), but the placement of Hanako's scars, the color of her hair, and even the Yamaku uniform itself are derived from RAITA's original sketch.



Would Lishy have had to get permission even if Hanako was wearing the school uniform (assuming she's only seen in the poster and not mentioned in-game)? If so, where do you draw the line between what belongs to RAITA and what belongs to 4LS?

[brythain]

It's odd that neither of you mentioned that this exact scenario played out last year.

He asked for permission, of course.

I was curious about happiness, because legality has been established as long as permission has been given.

[Oddball]

He asked for permission of course, but if he had to get permission to use Hanako's likeness, shouldn't he have also asked RAITA for his blessing? The poster is using one of Hanako's KS designs (the hat, at the very least, being a Weee creation), but the placement of Hanako's scars, the color of her hair, and even the Yamaku uniform itself part of RAITA's original sketch.

The original sketch wasn't colored.