Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

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Oddball
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Oddball » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:25 am

Misha: The girl with the drills, even though seemingly there as a translator shows several signs of mental disorders than on there own seem innocent enough however together seem rather frighteningly accurate to aspergers or some other autism disorder similar.
It really bothers me these days how everybody wants to label something as a mental disorder instead of just being able to accept that some people are simple eccentric or outright weird.

As far as Nurse flirting with Emi's mom, that just seems to be his character period. I think he flirts with pretty much every character he interacts with, including and ESPECIALLY Hisao. he also seems to have enough handle on people that he knows when to back off, and Emi isn't well know for keeping her opinions to herself. Her traumas? Yes, but she'll let somebody know when something is bothering her.

As far as Hanako goes, we know she was bullied, we just don't know how bad. There are something that people can bullying that others would c all attempted murder or assault.... or maybe it wasn't anything that bad. Honestly, Hanako is a very easy target that doesn't fight back, and has nobody in her corner backing her. You wouldn't even have to mget physical with her to get her to breakdown in tears.

One thing that sticks in my head though, is that gym class must have been a horror for her, with having to change in the locker rooms and wearing those skimpy outfits.
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Steinherz
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Steinherz » Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:41 am

Oddball wrote:
Misha: The girl with the drills, even though seemingly there as a translator shows several signs of mental disorders than on there own seem innocent enough however together seem rather frighteningly accurate to aspergers or some other autism disorder similar.
It really bothers me these days how everybody wants to label something as a mental disorder instead of just being able to accept that some people are simple eccentric or outright weird.
Well, for a long time homo/bisexuality was considered a mental disorder :lol:
... Some people still think that :roll:, but they're likely to be passing on from age by now
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Hellcat
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Hellcat » Thu May 05, 2016 5:18 pm

I think Misha as a character is dark in general, past or not. She's clearly a manic depressive, the girl lives her whole life and world as a lie, everything she does is a lie and even her smile is a lie. I find that fascinating in all honesty, no matter what she does, she's always being someone she is not.

I think her pondering about how nobody would really care if she jumped from the roof was the real moment where you could say "You really need help, you really do". Even though Misha told Hisao she would never do something like that, would you really put faith and trust in a girl who just lies to you and everyone else throughout Shizune's route?

Whatever past Misha had that was never shown, it's clear she struggles with that to the very end. I don't even believe she was happy in Shizune's end, i think she just put up with it.
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Mirage_GSM » Thu May 05, 2016 6:54 pm

She's clearly a manic depressive...
There someone goes again throwing around the name of a medical condition they know nothing about, saying some character "clearly" suffers from it...

Misha is not bipolar (which is the sciency name for manic dpressive people).

She is unhappy, because she is in love with someone who doesn't return her feelings, and she tries to cover this up by putting on a happy mask.
Maybe she is suffering from depression, but if every heartbroken person who tries to hide their hurt were bipolar, than most teenagers would be bipolar for a few months at some point in their lives.

Bipolar disorder doesn't work like that. People who suffer from that disorder don't put on a happy mask to hide their depression, they actually do feel positive and energetic - sometimes to the point of delusion - in their manic phases.

There's a lot more to bipolar disorder than that. If you're interested, here is a good place to start reading. If you do, you'll see why that disorder has nothing at all to do with Misha.
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Hellcat » Thu May 05, 2016 10:21 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote:
She's clearly a manic depressive...
There someone goes again throwing around the name of a medical condition they know nothing about, saying some character "clearly" suffers from it...

Misha is not bipolar (which is the sciency name for manic dpressive people).

She is unhappy, because she is in love with someone who doesn't return her feelings, and she tries to cover this up by putting on a happy mask.
Maybe she is suffering from depression, but if every heartbroken person who tries to hide their hurt were bipolar, than most teenagers would be bipolar for a few months at some point in their lives.

Bipolar disorder doesn't work like that. People who suffer from that disorder don't put on a happy mask to hide their depression, they actually do feel positive and energetic - sometimes to the point of delusion - in their manic phases.

There's a lot more to bipolar disorder than that. If you're interested, here is a good place to start reading. If you do, you'll see why that disorder has nothing at all to do with Misha.
I'll throw it around some more too, She also considered jumping from the school roof. "Maybe she is suffering from depression?" Jigoro clearly states she is which is why he told her to get over it and then told Hisao to wake up and realize it. (Jigoror being Jigoro)

There is no maybe about it, if she considered suicide which she did, that by most people is a sign she clearly needs help.
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by brythain » Thu May 05, 2016 11:07 pm

Hellcat wrote:I'll throw it around some more too, She also considered jumping from the school roof. "Maybe she is suffering from depression?" Jigoro clearly states she is which is why he told her to get over it and then told Hisao to wake up and realize it. (Jigoror being Jigoro)

There is no maybe about it, if she considered suicide which she did, that by most people is a sign she clearly needs help.
Well, I don't think you're right to characterise Misha as bipolar or 'manic depressive'. She's clearly depressed and masking it with a well-defined public persona. If you've studied Shizune's route, you'll have seen all the instances that support this construction.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Hellcat » Thu May 05, 2016 11:38 pm

brythain wrote: Well, I don't think you're right to characterise Misha as bipolar or 'manic depressive'. She's clearly depressed and masking it with a well-defined public persona. If you've studied Shizune's route, you'll have seen all the instances that support this construction.
Hellcat wrote: the girl lives her whole life and world as a lie, everything she does is a lie and even her smile is a lie. I find that fascinating in all honesty, no matter what she does, she's always being someone she is not.
^From my quote above on this same topic i talked about eariler, it seems you said what i already said and know.
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by brythain » Fri May 06, 2016 12:17 am

Hellcat wrote:
brythain wrote: Well, I don't think you're right to characterise Misha as bipolar or 'manic depressive'. She's clearly depressed and masking it with a well-defined public persona. If you've studied Shizune's route, you'll have seen all the instances that support this construction.
Hellcat wrote: the girl lives her whole life and world as a lie, everything she does is a lie and even her smile is a lie. I find that fascinating in all honesty, no matter what she does, she's always being someone she is not.
^From my quote above on this same topic i talked about eariler, it seems you said what i already said and know.
However, you do seem to use rather extreme language—not in a derogatory sense, but in the sense that you use words like 'whole' and 'everything' in this context. No: some of the things she does aren't lies. She is indeed struggling with depression, but she is honest about trying to make things work, which is why she has extra lessons with Mutou without telling her friends. She has no illusions left, that one; her only remaining illusions are those she attempts to foist on others.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Mirage_GSM » Fri May 06, 2016 7:05 am

Also, Jigoro is not the most trustworthy source for a psychological assessment...

I agree that it's likely that Misha is suffering from depression, but I'm not a psychologist, so I won't presume to insist that diagnosis is true.

I've been heartbroken before, being best friends with a girl who didn't reciprocate my feelings for more than a year. Still I don't think my mental state back then qualified as depressive.
KS is written from Hisao's PoV, so we don't get to look into Misha's head. We have no way of knowing if she really seriously considered suicide or if that was just something she idly wondered after she - in her mind - did something horrible to her two best friends.

It's just impossible to deduce such a thing from just a single line from Misha, spoken when she is at her absolute lowest.
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by YutoTheOrc » Sun May 15, 2016 10:35 pm

Based off of my studies involving depression and adolescent development(Two years of Bsc Psychology) I'd say that Misha could be depressed, but she could also be just another teen struggling with who they are. The thing is as teenagers(some not all) we tend to think that we are the first to experience anything that happens to us. The term that I studied was "Adolescent Egocentrism", probably called other stuff as well, but blah. Anyway, as teenagers we are effectively thrown into situation without the prior knowledge, we tend to believe that we are the first it has happened to. When Misha is at her lowest she certainly exhibits this sense of egocentrism as she tries to act all happy go lucky even when things aren't. You even see this when she avoids Shizune and the student council, when she goes to Hisao for that upsetting scene. As a teenager she doesn't know what to do, that coupled with her sexual orientation that she feels is abnormal she is truly in a pit of desperation.

The fact is that she could be depressed, but that's a pretty big if. In order to diagnose depression you need to have it for a long period of time, that's what separates depression from a bout of feeling down. I was surprised somebody didn't label her as dysthmic as opposed to manic as she says she has been "feeling" this way for a long time. As for manic depressive she isn't really manic, to be manic is to essentially be unstoppable, or at least feel as if you were unstoppable(Like drug levels). I tend to believe that Misha is just a "normal" teenage girl who is suffering from identity issues. We can't diagnose her as depressed without a longer study, can't call her manic without her not sleeping for a day or so and feeling like she is a god, and can't label her as Aspergers because we only ever see the visual novel side of her, not the human side.

It is possible I am wrong, but based off of what I have studied I can remain quite confident that she is as normal as any of us were at her age, well more so than others. As for Hanako being molested, that's a topic that I don't have enough knowledge to attempt to cover, nor would I want to as that is a can of festering worms that disturbs us all. Emi as being vindictive against the nurse seems off as her character, but then again none of us excluding her creator can say for certain.

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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Oddball » Wed May 18, 2016 11:26 am

I don't like "struggling with depression," as a term here. It's both too clinical and seems to make a bigger deal out of things than they really are.

She's depressed. Sure. She's a teenage girl that had her heartbroken and is trying to hide it. Why wouldn't she be depressed? On top of it all, Highschool is ending and that's always an emotional moment for teens.

Still, a lot of the time she really seems to be enjoying herself. That level of enthusiasm is hard to fake so consistently over that long a period of time.
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by KatawaHaremGod » Wed May 18, 2016 6:51 pm

I don't think Misha's "faking it" or anything, as the orc said ( :mrgreen: ) she's probably a bit depressed (especially closer to the ending of Shizune's route) but I think her happy moments seem common enough to be genuine. Its only when Hisao noticeably gets closer to Shizune that Misha starts getting obviously depressed again. She may have been hiding some of her depression, sure, but it could be something like "atypical depression", where you actually are fairly happy/calm most of the time, you eat and sleep a lot (opposite of "classic" depression) and you only get depressed under certain circumstances.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atypical_depression

Well, I'm probably just BS-ing :lol:

I love Misha :( and it wouldn't be fair to her to give her a "route" with Hisao because she's lesbian, (the H-scene was sad and painful, i didn't get any "enjoyment" at all) and forcing her on Shizune is unfair to Shizune because Shizune is either straight or not interested in her. Its a sad situation regardless :(
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by emmjay » Thu May 04, 2017 6:38 am

Munchenhausen wrote:I'd say Lilly's past was pretty dark.

But that's expected for someone who's congenitally blind
Hanako's past, on the other hand, was bright. Bright like a flame.
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by brythain » Thu May 04, 2017 10:11 pm

emmjay wrote:
Munchenhausen wrote:I'd say Lilly's past was pretty dark.

But that's expected for someone who's congenitally blind
Hanako's past, on the other hand, was bright. Bright like a flame.
Emi's past is legendary. Both of her leg ends.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

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