Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

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RandomHuman
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Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by RandomHuman » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:13 pm

So basically I've been feeling pretty down resentful and have been binging on KS, but after having time away fromthe stories I've noticed like very small things some of the girls say that make the whole game a lot darker than they first appear.(WARNING HUGE SPOILERS...duh..) and forgive spelling errors this is From my iPhone

Hanako: this was the first one I noticed. When lolly moves away in the good end and hanako calls Hisao to meet up something she says at the cafe really made me a little scared.. She said "In middle school, I got bullied... alot. I was called names, and got excluded from work groups and sports teams. There were... worse things, too." How the hell can it get worse than getting bullied and left I slotted by yourself? So had people taken advantage of her? but what can we all thing off that is worse? Yes. Poor little hanako was probably molested by a burn fetish orphanage worker or sexually humiliated by classmates about her body, most likely making her strip infont of them to make fun of her scars... Children are cruel.

Misha: The girl with the drills, even though seemingly there as a translator shows several signs of mental disorders than on there own seem innocent enough however together seem rather frighteningly accurate to aspergers or some other autism disorder similar. First for you skeptics let me read an explanation of some of the things people look for when they diagnose aspergers, " People with Asperger syndrome display behavior, interests, and activities that are restricted and repetitive and are sometimes abnormally intense or focused. As well as this they have A lack of social empathy in social interactions and their attention is usually limited to their one focus." I know that's a lot to take in but think about it, the first part is obvious, why else would she be able to learn sign language so naturally and enjoy doing the same boring and repetitive thing everyday by translating for shizune? The third part also links into this, since we know she is In love with shizune then that's the one topic she loves so much that she is focuses upon it, meaning that that's two out of the three main boxes ticked without too much digging. The second part is a it harder to expalin and until. Ow I have not noticed the lack of empathy that misha has, but today I noticed. When Lilly and Shizune are jabbing at eachother, having a verbal war it's not until after its nearly over she realises the malicious intent thatis meant in all of the words. It's weird that she didn't, Hisao did straight away and so did lolly and shizune, so why not misha? I admit once may be a coincidence but on hanakos route, she often says in appropriate things to ha amp, like joking with her even though she clearly does t like it, and in some points like when ha all joins the four way group literally can't even realise what she is saying is hurtful.. Or In Other words has a lack of social empathy (theory confirmed...ish) meaning maybe that Yamaku took in a mental disordered student after all. Whether they knew or not.

Emi: emi and nurses realationship has always been a highlight of the route with some top class banter and bickering between the two off them. However, with emis dad being dead she clearly remembers her father well and that is her idea of a father figure. So let's say your smile, your dads dead, you have one leg and a new school nurse flirts with your mom.. What do you do? You really wouldn't be happy about it probably. So you would start to resent the person, slowly digging into them while making them think you aren't being rude... Eli really hates nurse and the banter is probably that of a resistant girl not wanting her father replaced.( this is more of a stab in the dark but makes sence)

So that's my theory's,any of you guys have anything else you'd like to add? (This isn't a headcannon thread more for showing things other people might have missed and making them look at the storylines from a new angle)
"Oh yes the past can hurt. But you can either run from it, or learn from it" – Rafiki, Lion King

"This is my family. I found it all on my own. It's little and broken.... but it's still good...." - Stitch, Lilo and Stich

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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:31 am

First of all a cannon is something you shoot stuff out of, and you don't usually carry one around on your head.
Second, Aspergers and Autism are real conditions that are all too often assigned too all sorts of people/characters based on something someone has read somewhere on the internet, but that are much more complicated and harder to diagnose than by just ticking of boxes on some list. Trying to do so is offensive to those really suffering from those conditions.
Even if she were, the symptoms are not so severe that she would need to go to a special needs school because of them. She would be perfectly able to fuction on her own in a normal school.
Third, if you want an example of a mental student in Yamaku I point you to Kenji instead of Misha.
As for your theories about Hanako and Emi, I think both of them are excceedingly unlikely.
Emi is not the kind of person who would disguise hatred for anybody, and if you think so, you should reread her path. The feelings she tries to keep hidden away from others are feelings of affection.
Sekhara in middle school is also a bit hard to swallow. Half of those kids probably wouldn't have know about that in the first place. There are plenty of ways kids can be cruel without that.

Finally, I think the backstories of the girls are dark enough without making up additional stuff.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by brythain » Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:37 am

I think their pasts are more interesting than they first seem, but not necessarily darker. A long time ago, I got myself hooked on retrograde analysis chess problems. If you want a worthy endeavour, it's worthwhile trying to see what kind of history this version of the world has. The girls are fine. Go write some fan fiction. :)
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Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Kakureboshi » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:16 pm

Mirage already covered why your theories on Misha and Emi don't have much support. But I think your take on Hanako's bullying might be possible.
Mirage_GSM wrote: Sekhara in middle school is also a bit hard to swallow. Half of those kids probably wouldn't have know about that in the first place. There are plenty of ways kids can be cruel without that.
I don't know, man. Kids can be horrifyingly mean given the right circumstances. There are plenty of ways kids can be cruel without that, yes, but it doesn't seem impossible at all that by chance the chosen method of bullying would involve trying to reveal ALL of Hanako's scar so they can make fun of it since it is such an easy target for mockery, regardless of how depressing that is to think about.
Mirage_GSM wrote:Finally, I think the backstories of the girls are dark enough without making up additional stuff.
That won't stop people from making gritty reimaginings of pretty much everything.

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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by RandomHuman » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:57 pm

Mirage_GSM wrote: Sekhara in middle school is also a bit hard to swallow. Half of those kids probably wouldn't have know about that in the first place. There are plenty of ways kids can be cruel without that.
I don't know, man. Kids can be horrifyingly mean given the right circumstances. There are plenty of ways kids can be cruel without that, yes, but it doesn't seem impossible at all that by chance the chosen method of bullying would involve trying to reveal ALL of Hanako's scar so they can make fun of it since it is such an easy target for mockery, regardless of how depressing that is to think [/quote]

Plus she said bullying before witch is where the whole idea came from. I just thought it's got to be something pretty traumatic to be set as a different activity and that seemed like the most logical idea... Whatever it was was fucked up.

As far as the whole emi thing goes when it comes to talking about her father in her bad route she just shuts herself off (probably one of the saddest endings in the game when you have that last talk to her and she just acts like everything's ok) is it really too much of a leap for her to just be pretending to be joking around when actually she is seething with rage ( probably but that was my least favourite theory anyway xD)

And finally the whole misha thing has been troubling people for along time whether she has a disability or not since people with mental diseases aren't allowed in yamaku ( as far as I remember). I meant no malice behind it I was simply suggesting a possible illness she could have. I mean she does show a lot of signs of several different social disorders through all the routes I just picked up on the ones from hanakos route which I know also corresponds to aspergers
"Oh yes the past can hurt. But you can either run from it, or learn from it" – Rafiki, Lion King

"This is my family. I found it all on my own. It's little and broken.... but it's still good...." - Stitch, Lilo and Stich

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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:48 pm

Misha's disability was only in question before the release of KS when only the demo was available.
It has been more or less settled since then: She doesn't have a disability; she is at Yamaku to learn sign language (and to get away from the bullying at her previous school). She is telling Hisao all kinds of embarassing stuff about her past. There would be no reason for her to keep an additional medical condition secret.

As for Emi: Yes, that would be quite a leap. It goes against everything we learn about her personality in her route.
About Hanako - you can read that line you quoted different ways:

"In middle school, I got bullied... alot. I was called names, and got excluded from work groups and sports teams. There were... worse things, too."

a) She got bullied. There was namecalling, exclusion from sports groups and worse stuff.
b) She was bulied with namecalling and exclusion from sports groups, but there was also worse stuff than bullying.

I see no reason to assume b) when a) will fit all the facts we know about her.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by RandomHuman » Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:15 pm

I agree that emi is defiantly a leap and I'm willing to give you that one.

Misha however blatantly has several aspects of her personality in there and mange it could be the bullying that caused her to have social problems. Maybe it isn't as bad as aspergers and doesn't need to be diagnosed but with all the things that are pointed out for more or less no reason I refuse to believe she is normal.

Hanako however I completely disagree. The quote doesn't say that it was sports group and worse stuff, if it had meant that it would have said, "I was bullied ... A lot, I was called names and got excluded from work groups and sports team aswell as worse things." But it doesn't, it clearly says, "I got bullied a lot, I was called names and got excluded from work groups and sports teams.[FULL STOP] there were... Worse things too."

This means that whatever it was had to be worse than bulling so it' a more than likely that it's about abuse. and the most logical explanation is that they wanted to see the rest of her scars and when hanako refused they made her... It's not nice but in a game where her own mother is burned to death on top of her ( as a very young child no less ) I believe it's defiantly a huge possibility
"Oh yes the past can hurt. But you can either run from it, or learn from it" – Rafiki, Lion King

"This is my family. I found it all on my own. It's little and broken.... but it's still good...." - Stitch, Lilo and Stich

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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by brythain » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:06 am

Mirage_GSM wrote:"In middle school, I got bullied... alot. I was called names, and got excluded from work groups and sports teams. There were... worse things, too."

a) She got bullied. There was namecalling, exclusion from sports groups and worse stuff.
b) She was bulied with namecalling and exclusion from sports groups, but there was also worse stuff than bullying.

I see no reason to assume b) when a) will fit all the facts we know about her.
I agree with this. To make it clearer: she was bullied a lot, and the said bullying included name-calling, exclusion from activities, and worse things than those. Such things can include vandalism of property, gossip, posting of unflattering notes and pictures, etc. Doesn't have to be physical abuse.

But she was already antisocial from before that, as the context shows.

Here's the context for further reflection:
Hisao: "You don't seem very jealous of Lilly having lots of friends. Don't you want to make some more friends yourself, or get to know some of hers?"

Hanako: "I'm not jealous. I… don't like people, so I don't mind not having many friends."

That's… really not the answer that I was expecting. She doesn't look fearful or sad as she says this, but rather, quite serious.

Hanako: "I…"

Hanako rubs her arm awkwardly, having taken my quietness as a reason to continue. I'm not really sure what I should say, so I end up simply giving her my attention in silence.

Hanako: "In middle school, I got bullied… a lot. I was called names, and got excluded from work groups and sports teams. There were… worse things, too."

Hisao: "And that's what made you not like other people?"

She shakes her head.

Hanako: "That was… elementary school."
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Mirage_GSM » Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:19 am

But it doesn't, it clearly says, "I got bullied a lot, I was called names and got excluded from work groups and sports teams.[FULL STOP] there were... Worse things too."
That Full Stop doesn't remove the ambiguous meaning in the slightest - especially not in direct speech.

Also: [defiantly]
You're free to defy consensus and hold on to your own opinion, though :-)
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Riakai » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:20 pm

I'm with the majority, namely in the fact that most of the girls have "dark pasts" already.
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Charmant » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:42 pm

"Poor little hanako was probably molested by a burn fetish orphanage worker..."

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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Liminaut » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:52 am

In terms of Misha: There was a whole thread on this, the consensus is that no, she doesn't have Asperger's or anything like that. If you really want a darker past for her, you don't have to go any farther than Misha's rooftop confessional in SHizune's path, especially the part where she says that she was looking forwards to not having any real contact with students when she started at Yakima. No human contact being a big step up in life? eeeee-OUCH!

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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Munchenhausen » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:34 pm

I'd say Lilly's past was pretty dark.

But that's expected for someone who's congenitally blind
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by Kakureboshi » Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:04 pm

Munchenhausen wrote:I'd say Lilly's past was pretty dark.

But that's expected for someone who's congenitally blind
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Re: Are the pasts of the girls darker than they first seem?

Post by brythain » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:09 pm

Munchenhausen wrote:I'd say Lilly's past was pretty dark.

But that's expected for someone who's congenitally blind
And you point a finger at -me-. :D
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

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