Anyone else hate Misha?

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brythain
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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by brythain » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:29 pm

Ryusashi wrote:
Charmant wrote:
Oddball wrote:...whether your particular interpretation of the word "comfort" matches the writers.
Which it should because it's made very obvious.
Subtext was important in that scene. If I hadnt been careful and saw that I would have messed up thinking what (probably) a lot thought. I like comforting but not in the way the subtext meant.
Let me introduce you to cultural context. :D [LINK] (Warning, might trigger unpleasant thoughts.)
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

Ryusashi
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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by Ryusashi » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:55 pm

brythain wrote: Let me introduce you to cultural context. :D [LINK] (Warning, might trigger unpleasant thoughts.)
I didn't know hisao was in the military. And idk how misha became a prostitute. Shoulda seem it coming.... but in all seriousness, thats a f***ed up thing to link. As most "comfort women" were sex slaves, I dont recall giving her a call randomly and banging.
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Charmant
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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by Charmant » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:56 pm

brythain wrote:Let me introduce you to cultural context. :D [LINK] (Warning, might trigger unpleasant thoughts.)
So Misha was asking Hisao to kidnap her and force her into sexual slavery for Kenji's army?

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brythain
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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by brythain » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:58 pm

Charmant wrote:
brythain wrote:Let me introduce you to cultural context. :D [LINK] (Warning, might trigger unpleasant thoughts.)
So Misha was asking Hisao to kidnap her and force her into sexual slavery for Kenji's army?
I guess one interpretation was that she wanted to feel something that Shizune felt, but it made her feel dirty to be doing it that way.
As I said, it's a pretty unpleasant thing all round.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

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Charmant
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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by Charmant » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:08 pm

brythain wrote:
Charmant wrote:
brythain wrote:Let me introduce you to cultural context. :D [LINK] (Warning, might trigger unpleasant thoughts.)
So Misha was asking Hisao to kidnap her and force her into sexual slavery for Kenji's army?
I guess one interpretation was that she wanted to feel something that Shizune felt, but it made her feel dirty to be doing it that way.
As I said, it's a pretty unpleasant thing all round.
Maybe her thinking was that Shizune's vag touched Hisao's wang so by proxy, she was hooking up with Shizune. :lol:

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brythain
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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by brythain » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:12 pm

Charmant wrote:Maybe her thinking was that Shizune's vag touched Hisao's wang so by proxy, she was hooking up with Shizune. :lol:
Well, that's rather sad too, no? But if you want to explore all these plausible/possible psychological motivations, best turn to fan fiction...
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end.
Main Index (Complete)Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/AkiraHideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of SuzuSakura—The Kenji Saga.
"Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)

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Nantes
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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by Nantes » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:37 pm

Atario wrote:
Ryusashi wrote:1) the other half shizune. Thats it. How else is anyone going to understand the deaf chick if no one can hear her? (Sounds harsh but not everyone is going to try and learn sign language).
I have never known any deaf people who had or needed interpreters… 'course, it does help the story.
Shizune is not simply deaf, she is deaf AND mute. Granted, she could write to people and people write back to her, but having an interpreter around is much faster and less bothersome for both her and her interlocutors.

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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by Steinherz » Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:08 pm

Nantes wrote:
Atario wrote:
Ryusashi wrote:1) the other half shizune. Thats it. How else is anyone going to understand the deaf chick if no one can hear her? (Sounds harsh but not everyone is going to try and learn sign language).
I have never known any deaf people who had or needed interpreters… 'course, it does help the story.
Shizune is not simply deaf, she is deaf AND mute. Granted, she could write to people and people write back to her, but having an interpreter around is much faster and less bothersome for both her and her interlocutors.
Aaaactually, Shizune makes an attempt to stifle noises she's making in the VN. Which implies she's mute by choice (would you want to try talking if you couldn't hear yourself?) Mute would imply she can't make any verbal noises.
So she's deaf and mute by choice, not deaf/mute.
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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by AlexKidd » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:59 pm

Steinherz wrote: Aaaactually, Shizune makes an attempt to stifle noises she's making in the VN. Which implies she's mute by choice (would you want to try talking if you couldn't hear yourself?) Mute would imply she can't make any verbal noises.
So she's deaf and mute by choice, not deaf/mute.
I think she is definitely mute, in her route she seems to laugh sometimes but no sounds come from her mouth and also seems aware of this fact because she covers her mouth when it happens. Hisao thought it was because of some shame she felt to laugh without laughing

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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by BMFJack » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:03 pm

brythain wrote:On the other hand, if you don't like it because of the scenery, do tell.
It's been well over a year since I played Shizune's route (the only one I've never replayed) so I can't remember all the gory details. I remember that Misha is more annoying in Shizune's route than Act One, and I remember that for their first time, Shizune arguably rapes Hisao and that, in general, Shizune acts like a cunt. I think she means well, but being a cunt isn't the way to go about it. Then there's the obvious one that even Shizune fanboys admit; the ending sucks. Those are the most specific details I can remember.

I remember feeling bored through most of her route, except during H-scenes. Even then, it was really just looking at pictures.

Rin isn't much better, but at least I got some feels on her route. I think it was simply my expectations that ruined Rin for me though.

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Byakku
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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by Byakku » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:14 pm

AlexKidd wrote:
Steinherz wrote: Aaaactually, Shizune makes an attempt to stifle noises she's making in the VN. Which implies she's mute by choice (would you want to try talking if you couldn't hear yourself?) Mute would imply she can't make any verbal noises.
So she's deaf and mute by choice, not deaf/mute.
I think she is definitely mute, in her route she seems to laugh sometimes but no sounds come from her mouth and also seems aware of this fact because she covers her mouth when it happens. Hisao thought it was because of some shame she felt to laugh without laughing
She's definitely mute according to her official description:

"Strong willed and forceful, Shizune is definitely the leader type. She’s been the class rep, despite being deaf and mute, for as long as her class has had one, and generally takes charge in just about any situation she’s placed in. Shizune is known around the school as a fearsome taskmaster, and skilled manipulator, but also as a fair and just leader."

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Steinherz
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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by Steinherz » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:26 pm

Byakku wrote:
AlexKidd wrote:
Steinherz wrote: Aaaactually, Shizune makes an attempt to stifle noises she's making in the VN. Which implies she's mute by choice (would you want to try talking if you couldn't hear yourself?) Mute would imply she can't make any verbal noises.
So she's deaf and mute by choice, not deaf/mute.
I think she is definitely mute, in her route she seems to laugh sometimes but no sounds come from her mouth and also seems aware of this fact because she covers her mouth when it happens. Hisao thought it was because of some shame she felt to laugh without laughing
She's definitely mute according to her official description:

"Strong willed and forceful, Shizune is definitely the leader type. She’s been the class rep, despite being deaf and mute, for as long as her class has had one, and generally takes charge in just about any situation she’s placed in. Shizune is known around the school as a fearsome taskmaster, and skilled manipulator, but also as a fair and just leader."
And yet she is shown to be able to make verbal noises in her own route. Which implies she's not completely mute. Muteness means you're unable to make any sound at all.
Ergo, she's deaf and mute by choice, not a deaf-mute.
I write take a look, would you kindly?
I also draw, kind of.
KeiichiO wrote:You shall now, and forever be known as, "Steinherz, The Great".
Oddball wrote:It's an obvious mistake. Both are disfigured orphans that read alot and both wear green skirts.

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Byakku
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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by Byakku » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:45 pm

Steinherz wrote:And yet she is shown to be able to make verbal noises in her own route. Which implies she's not completely mute. Muteness means you're unable to make any sound at all.
Ergo, she's deaf and mute by choice, not a deaf-mute.
Actually, most mute people can typically make verbal sounds. Mutism refers to the inability to produce speech due to issues with organs necessary for speech, not the inability to produce any sound at all. I used to have a classmate who was deaf-mute since birth, and yet she was able to make incoherent sounds from time to time, though it varies from case to case. It's probably more of a pride thing for Shizune, though. :wink:

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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by BMFJack » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:49 pm

Steinherz wrote:Ergo, she's deaf and mute by choice, not a deaf-mute.
To that end, I think I remember Jigoro saying something about her refusing to talk, no matter what he did. That implies that she is mute by choice. Jigoro may be a douche, but I don't think he's that much of a douche.

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Re: Anyone else hate Misha?

Post by Megumeru » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:51 pm

BMFJack wrote:
Megumeru wrote:most of the time it takes multiple reads to actually understand Shizune and Misha duo as a whole.
Maybe for you. I thought they were pretty tranparent, and even guessed Misha's "secret" pretty early on.
If you're talking about 'that', then you just glazed the tip of the ice, nothing more. I'd link you to one of the discussion board here that already discussed and unravelled almost every aspect of the route by the more culturally savvy...if I can find which thread it is (there's about 4-5 of them)
BMFJack wrote:
Megumeru wrote:nympho
For the record, she has a healthy adolescent sex drive.
We use a different word than that over here, which if used in this board might rustle a lot more jimmies. Nympho is pretty tame.


It is mentioned that Shizune is mute by choice. One thing I learned about deafness is how difficult it is for them to learn about speech since you can't perceive the difference in tone and pronunciation. It was mentioned thaf she was deaf by choice, and I believe that reason was justified.
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They say they hate Shizune? What is this? BLASPHEMY!

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