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Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:41 am
by newnar
Somehow this is converging towards mentaru shoujo
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:47 am
by Rinmibro
newnar wrote:Somehow this is converging towards mentaru shoujo
Seems that way, well there is still 4 more to see according to the card filenames. The first card's girl is named Chieko from the thread on /a/. But she seems physically harmed, this new girl just says something about thinking, but looks normal. So I'd say something along those lines may be for her.
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:12 am
by themocaw
Here it is.
If it was just the name I would not mind.
If it was just the premise I would not mind.
What it is, however, is the name, the premise, the setting, AND you're publicizing it by copying an official side project, AND the logo is close to the actual logo, AND there is no open indication that 4LS has no involvement at all in this project
This crosses the line from an homage to shadily trying to ride the coat tails of the original project. This basically has all of the integrity of those guys who make movies like "The Titanic Story" and "Transmorphers" to try and cash in on the big blockbuster movies.
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:26 am
by Guest
themocaw wrote:Here it is.
If it was just the name I would not mind.
If it was just the premise I would not mind.
What it is, however, is the name, the premise, the setting, AND you're publicizing it by copying an official side project, AND the logo is close to the actual logo, AND there is no open indication that 4LS has no involvement at all in this project
This crosses the line from an homage to shadily trying to ride the coat tails of the original project. This basically has all of the integrity of those guys who make movies like "The Titanic Story" and "Transmorphers" to try and cash in on the big blockbuster movies.
Sort of agree, but still interested nonetheless, the concept art doesnt look half bad, and theyre not reusing old characters, so theyre taking the time to make up their own, can respect that at least.
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:49 am
by N. Bekkler
themocaw wrote:Here it is.
If it was just the name I would not mind.
If it was just the premise I would not mind.
What it is, however, is the name, the premise, the setting, AND you're publicizing it by copying an official side project, AND the logo is close to the actual logo, AND there is no open indication that 4LS has no involvement at all in this project
This crosses the line from an homage to shadily trying to ride the coat tails of the original project. This basically has all of the integrity of those guys who make movies like "The Titanic Story" and "Transmorphers" to try and cash in on the big blockbuster movies.
While I do agree with what you're saying, I wouldn't start to seriously worry about this until they really do try to cash in - the moment that the people behind this try to collect money for any reason withdrawal of support should be considered.
I don't have a problem with anything short of trying to earn money by emulating Katawa Shoujo. The success or failure of Mentaru Shoujo and Katawa Shoujo Plus will be how they adapt and advance the template they've been given. If they are carbon copies they might fail, but if they stray too far from the original it could be just as bad.
I'm reserving judgment until I see results - anything else is mere supposition.
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:13 am
by Synthus
AFAIK this has Miki as a character path, so it has all my support.
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:29 am
by Theeyebrowsofdoom
So in case anyone's wondering, I asked the question in the asking thread and Aura said this:
Aura wrote:
Licence stuff aside (the game licence explicitely forbids this so technically I have to be strictly against it), I think the general sentiment is that we wish people would spend their efforts on something less blatantly derivative. While it's great if people are inspired to engage themselves with something, and I get that the fan phenomenon is in play here, it's kinda weird to try to do the exact same thing again. I guess the issue is a bit complex and hard to draw lines into, which is why we picked the licence we have.
Here's a post by Suriko on the subject:
http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?p=71572#p71572
(Before you attempt to draw a comparison to us getting inspired by raita, think hard whether the situations are actually comparable. Protip: they aren't)
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:13 am
by Rinmibro
Theeyebrowsofdoom wrote:So in case anyone's wondering, I asked the question in the asking thread and Aura said this:
Aura wrote:
Licence stuff aside (the game licence explicitely forbids this so technically I have to be strictly against it), I think the general sentiment is that we wish people would spend their efforts on something less blatantly derivative. While it's great if people are inspired to engage themselves with something, and I get that the fan phenomenon is in play here, it's kinda weird to try to do the exact same thing again. I guess the issue is a bit complex and hard to draw lines into, which is why we picked the licence we have.
Here's a post by Suriko on the subject:
http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?p=71572#p71572
(Before you attempt to draw a comparison to us getting inspired by raita, think hard whether the situations are actually comparable. Protip: they aren't)
Seems a bit childish to want to shut down something like this, I can't really blame them though, I guess. Maybe the staff for the game has something planned already to avoid this?
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:29 am
by Merlyn_LeRoy
Theeyebrowsofdoom wrote:So in case anyone's wondering, I asked the question in the asking thread and Aura said this:
Aura wrote:
Licence stuff aside (the game licence explicitely forbids this so technically I have to be strictly against it), I think the general sentiment is that we wish people would spend their efforts on something less blatantly derivative. While it's great if people are inspired to engage themselves with something, and I get that the fan phenomenon is in play here, it's kinda weird to try to do the exact same thing again. I guess the issue is a bit complex and hard to draw lines into, which is why we picked the licence we have.
Here's a post by Suriko on the subject:
http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?p=71572#p71572
(Before you attempt to draw a comparison to us getting inspired by raita, think hard whether the situations are actually comparable. Protip: they aren't)
A lot of the devs seem to have very odd ideas about copyright. Raita Honjou came up with the name "Katawa Shoujo." He owns it. Even if the VN "Katawa Shoujo" constitutes fair use (which itself is arguable), the KS devs don't have a greater claim to fair use than another group of people who formed yesterday; fair use is fair use.
Still, it'd be a dickish thing to use the same name without the devs OK.
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:45 am
by Aura
It's not like I'm a lawyer, but as far as I can see the name is not a copyright issue, it's a trademark issue. Raita does not "own" the name, and neither do us, and fair use is a concept that is completely unrelated to the usage of the name.
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:12 pm
by N. Bekkler
Aura wrote:It's not like I'm a lawyer, but as far as I can see the name is not a copyright issue, it's a trademark issue. Raita does not "own" the name, and neither do us, and fair use is a concept that is completely unrelated to the usage of the name.
On that note...
Suriko wrote:I hate to come down on a thread like this. From this line you can probably guess what's coming....
The KS license prohibits any derivative work to Katawa Shoujo being produced....
That said, a line has to be drawn somewhere.... This line is drawn at visual novels. We won't and never will give permission to produce a sequel (or prequel) to Katawa Shoujo, because in our minds KS was this single project and it's our preference to keep it that way.
...Think you have the resources to pull off the creation of a visual novel? Great! That's awesome, because you have the means to use a pretty cool medium to tell an entirely new story. Make the most of it, and we'll be pleased as punch to have inspired you to create something new.
My attitude towards these projects has wavered between ambivalence, doubt, and hope for the past few days. In light of hearing what the people responsible for Katawa Shoujo think, however, I'm starting to understand the atmosphere of apprehension.
Things like fanfiction have never really interested me because I generally consider them to be unwelcome attempts to influence series cannon. Katawa Shoujo is such an original concept that any attempt to continue or emulate it will inevitable draw comparisons to what we saw the first time.
Thank you for giving us your thoughts on the matter. It is nice to dispense with having to guess at your thoughts.
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:40 pm
by encrypted12345
Like with Mentaru Shoujo, I'll only observe for now and withhold any judgements I have. I must admit that the term Katawa Shoujo plus urks me a little, but then again, it's only a place holder title. Titles are hard to make up as many people can only make one up until after they are done with what they are doing. I agonize longer over the title of college essays than the essay itself sometimes.
That being said, I think a better temporary title might be Yamaku Adventures, Exceptionality (or whatever is the current politically correct term for disability is now days) Love, or something. Slightly changing the setting may also help clear the grey zone this seems to be in. It won't solve it, but it might help.
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:07 pm
by Merlyn_LeRoy
I'd just go with a different Japanese word in place of katawa that means about the same thing, like kekkan, isshitsu, bikko, haijin, fugu/fugusha
PS: I didn't know Bikko's name meant "crippled" until just now.
PPS: Aura's right, mere titles can't be copyrighted. I don't know if giving stuff away for free counts as "trade" for trademark purposes.
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by Hiroto
As a member of the project, I can now say the project has been renamed to "Love Despite"
I will post the updated FAQ later on, after we finalize it.
Re: Katawa Shoujo "Plus"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:09 pm
by newnar
Hiroto wrote:As a member of the project, I can now say the project has been renamed to "Love Despite"
I will post the updated FAQ later on, after we finalize it.
That name is pure genius. Anyway, are there any slots on the dev team?