Katawa Haha

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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby Loki » Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:12 am

U.T. Raptor wrote:
Goldilurks wrote:Request time: Is there any of the remaining characters that you, the fanbase, should be portrayed as expecting another child in their Katawa Haha chapter? (Or to put it simply, do any of you horndogs have a pregnancy fetish for one of the girls? ...Wait, why not just put a request in on the Fanart forum then?)

Hanako, no question.

Hanako was the first that popped into my head too, followed by Lilly. They strike me as the two most 'motherly' (especially Lilly) so I wouldn't be surprised for them to have/be working on large families. Lilly for aformentioned motherly instincts, Hanako for them too, but also because (in my interpretation of her character) she'd want her children not to be alone in case anything happened to her and (assuming it is) Hisao, like with her families. I think being lonely after the accident would have been one of the worst things for her.
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby Goldilurks » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:33 pm

El Jay wrote:You put just enough detail into this stuff, not too much and not too little. Enough wiggle room for artistic license, and enough meat to the writing to have it known how you'd like things to turn out.

Well, it's good to know that I should keep doing what I'm doing. If the comments on perspective and panel placement are useful I'll keep adding them. I was afraid that was intruding too much on the artist's territory.
Ozymil wrote:Love the new format, definitely makes things easier to peruse through; same could be said for your writing style, which is much more fluid and enables me to paint a better mental picture of what's happening.

Out of curiosity, do you feel my style has changed between Shizune's and Emi's chapters?
Now now, request time! I think we can all safely agree th-FUUUUUUUU YOU MUST DO HANAKO NEXT.

Rin was planned next, as I had the clearest idea of what her chapter contained. but I'm not starting on it for a few days more. I've procrastinated on other projects (and a job search) enough for KH as it is. Throw in work and I'm probably not even starting until Friday, tentative completion weekend after next. So Rin was next in line, but you have a few days to convince me otherwise. ;) RIN FANS VS. HANAKO FANS! ROUND 1 - FIGHT!
Also, for future reference, yes, PLEASE switch to English when using titles and formalities. KS is already weeaboo as it is, and having to read through "chan" and "san" every other line would be more Wapanese than I could handle.

I can get behind this. It will be my policy on the project from now on.
G3n0c1de wrote:As far as I can tell, these are what Emi's 'normal' prosthetics look like. They are at the least, shaped to look like normal legs, and Emi wears stockings to mask that they are artificial. Whenever she isn't running, she wears these. These would only show up when she first appears. When she comes to deliver her son's cell phone, she'd have switched to her legblades. I wonder what these would look like without her stockings and shoes on. I don't know how they work, so perhaps they were designed to work with shoes, or are they advanced enough so that she can wear them with shoes or be 'barefoot'? I'm not saying you did anything wrong, it's more of a visual reference for any artists, I guess. Anyway, Nice chapter for Emi. I can't wait to read the other ones.

Thank you very much for pointing that out!
Loki wrote:Hanako was the first that popped into my head too, followed by Lilly. They strike me as the two most 'motherly' (especially Lilly) so I wouldn't be surprised for them to have/be working on large families. Lilly for aformentioned motherly instincts, Hanako for them too, but also because (in my interpretation of her character) she'd want her children not to be alone in case anything happened to her and (assuming it is) Hisao, like with her families. I think being lonely after the accident would have been one of the worst things for her.

...that is a fantastic argument and a well made case for believable characterization. In her chapter I will write Hanako as going through her second trimester.
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Katawa Haha: Disability Mothers
From Shizune's Perspective: a fanfic
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby Loki » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:27 am

Goldilurks wrote:...that is a fantastic argument and a well made case for believable characterization.

Eeeee, thanks. =3

I remembered reading somewhere that large families are often the result of something during one (or both) the parent's childhood (such as in Hanako's case, becoming very isolated). Interestingly enough, another reason can be that they themselves were from a large family. Upshot of this is, Hanako or Lilly could (by the time she's at granny/great-gran stage) be the matriarch of a Clan. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Loki on Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby Vysetron » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:41 am

I'm actually quite interested to see how Rin would react in this situation, for a few reasons.
First, her very nature is very different than that of the "motherly" standard. Her attitude towards it would certainly be unique.
Second, would the upcoming (or present, whenever you set the piece) child cause her to think differently about her disability? For a mother to not even be able to hold her child in the traditional sense...hmm.
Lastly, what sort of changes do you think her method of thought and such undergo so many years later? Would she mature to the point of largely abandoning her distant, semi-random moments?
I'd like to see who you think Rin would become over time.

(Sorry if this is worded oddly. Not well rested at the moment.)
Hmm.
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby Ozymil » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:29 am

Vysetron wrote:I'm actually quite interested to see how Rin would react in this situation, for a few reasons.
First, her very nature is very different than that of the "motherly" standard. Her attitude towards it would certainly be unique.
Second, would the upcoming (or present, whenever you set the piece) child cause her to think differently about her disability? For a mother to not even be able to hold her child in the traditional sense...hmm.
Lastly, what sort of changes do you think her method of thought and such undergo so many years later? Would she mature to the point of largely abandoning her distant, semi-random moments?
I'd like to see who you think Rin would become over time.


Surprisingly, this has me rooting for Rin's piece to come up next. It definitely would be quite interesting to see just how she would progress as a mother (assuming the child will be past his toddler years when we meet him) and, as Vysetron stated, whether or not she still keeps her "Cloud Cuckoolander" demeanor or if she has developed a more normal (normal to us, anyways) state of mind.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still a Hanako fanboy, but Rin is just too dynamic and intriguing a character to pass up for the usual blob of moe that our dear Ikezawa is.

p.s. In regards to your writing style, I found it to be much more descriptive and fluid in Emi's piece, whereas in Shizune's you had written the text in such a way that it was awkward to move through and you seemed to be "telling" the reader what was happening instead of "showing."
Donnes-moi le chocolat, Hisao! Gib mir die Schokolade, Hisao! Dame el chocolate, Hisao! Dammi il cioccolato, Hisao! Ge mig choklad, Hisao! Giv mig chokolade, Hisao! 私にチョコレートを与える, 久夫! Daj mi czekoladę, Hisao! Geef me de chocola, Hisao! (Thanks for the Dutch ver. Leotrak) Bigyan mo ako ng chocolate, Hisao! Geef mij de chocolade, Hisao! Дайте мне шоколад, Хисао! Dá-me o chocolate, Hisao!
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby Loki » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:25 am

Agreed. There is much potential for Rin firing her mouth off randomly, much to the horror of her son/daughter which is too lultastic to ignore. :lol:
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby Silentcook » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:14 am

For some reason, I really like the subject treatment in Emi's main piece and in the first 4koma. I have my usual half-ton of quibbles, but they are quibbles. Fundamentally nice job.
Me being a massive Emifag might have something to do with it. :3
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby EmP|ty » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:28 am

I must say I rather liked these, the Shizune one especially, moarmoarmoar.
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:47 pm

More !!!!
Hanako <3
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby Vysetron » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:28 pm

Also, regarding your writing, I feel that while the second one was more functional, I found the mood of the first to be more intimate and...I don't know, real. It really seemed like Shizune.
Then again, she's my favorite, so I could be biased.
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby Goldilurks » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:09 am

To be honest, I really didn't expect this project to be nearly this popular before any illustrations. Jeeze, you throw up a few crappy scripts and all of a sudden the thread becomes a habitat of the wild moar boar.
I still consider these chapters lacking without the visual component. Hopefully someone will give them the treatment they deserve.
Ozymil wrote:
Vysetron wrote:I'm actually quite interested to see how Rin would react in this situation, for a few reasons.
First, her very nature is very different than that of the "motherly" standard. Her attitude towards it would certainly be unique.
Second, would the upcoming (or present, whenever you set the piece) child cause her to think differently about her disability? For a mother to not even be able to hold her child in the traditional sense...hmm.
Lastly, what sort of changes do you think her method of thought and such undergo so many years later? Would she mature to the point of largely abandoning her distant, semi-random moments?
I'd like to see who you think Rin would become over time.


Surprisingly, this has me rooting for Rin's piece to come up next. It definitely would be quite interesting to see just how she would progress as a mother (assuming the child will be past his toddler years when we meet him) and, as Vysetron stated, whether or not she still keeps her "Cloud Cuckoolander" demeanor or if she has developed a more normal (normal to us, anyways) state of mind.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still a Hanako fanboy, but Rin is just too dynamic and intriguing a character to pass up for the usual blob of moe that our dear Ikezawa is.
Loki wrote:Agreed. There is much potential for Rin firing her mouth off randomly, much to the horror of her son/daughter which is too lultastic to ignore. :lol:

You guys did read the preview quotes in the OP, didn't you? That should answer your questions about Rin.
Ozymil wrote:p.s. In regards to your writing style, I found it to be much more descriptive and fluid in Emi's piece, whereas in Shizune's you had written the text in such a way that it was awkward to move through and you seemed to be "telling" the reader what was happening instead of "showing."

Vysetron wrote:Also, regarding your writing, I feel that while the second one was more functional, I found the mood of the first to be more intimate and...I don't know, real. It really seemed like Shizune.
Then again, she's my favorite, so I could be biased.

And herein lies the difficulty I have in assessing my own work - what was due to differences in the atmosphere and voice of the two chapters, and what was an actual improvement in writing? I'm trying to break it down into specific techniques to use in describing the panels. (Of course, feedback is always appreciated, so thank you.)
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby Ozymil » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:41 am

Yes, I did read the preview quote for Rin's chapter, yet that didn't really reveal much. Sure, it may seem like the usual witty retort that Rin may spout, but really, what loving mother doesn't ask that question?

As for your writing, I thought I stated rather clearly, but with Emi's chapter you seemed to make it more descriptive, allowing the reader to paint a better mental picture of what was transpiring; that was an actual improvement in writing. The differences with atmosphere and the like were to be expected with such a deviation from the somber, intimate mood set in Shizune's chapter to the peppy, happy mood found in Emi's.

To cut it short: ya done good, kid, ya done good.
Last edited by Ozymil on Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Donnes-moi le chocolat, Hisao! Gib mir die Schokolade, Hisao! Dame el chocolate, Hisao! Dammi il cioccolato, Hisao! Ge mig choklad, Hisao! Giv mig chokolade, Hisao! 私にチョコレートを与える, 久夫! Daj mi czekoladę, Hisao! Geef me de chocola, Hisao! (Thanks for the Dutch ver. Leotrak) Bigyan mo ako ng chocolate, Hisao! Geef mij de chocolade, Hisao! Дайте мне шоколад, Хисао! Dá-me o chocolate, Hisao!
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby El Jay » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:46 am

Goldilurks wrote:I still consider these chapters lacking without the visual component. Hopefully someone will give them the treatment they deserve.


Jeez, I get close to finishing the ink work on one page and it seems to be just about right on time too, judging by the fact that our generous writer is even wanting an image to the words. :V

I should have something basic done in a rather short amount of time, just the first page for Shizune, just to see what people think before I dedicate any time to actually making something good. That, and it would be nice to flesh out a few small details before cracking the whip on myself over finishing the rest of the pages.

Edit: Oh god I hate doing straight lines sometimes, fucking Open Canvas. I need to find a better way of doing this shit now. Anyways, here's all I've got going so far, nothing's concrete really, and shit'll look better once there's color in the lines and such, grayscale or full-on RGB. That and I misplaced a few things here and there... Eh. >_> If anyone wants the guy to be Hisao, go ahead and let me know, I'm fine either way, unless it'll interfere with plans for the other girl's stuff. Anything other then that, lemme know too. About the only thing I don't WANT to do is re-arrange panels, just out of the sake of not wanting to restart this stuff. XD;

I might just go back and give that teddy bear Misha's drills. :3c Also I listened to so much vocaloid shit during this that I'm going to start finding human voices weird sounding. Balls.
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GOD DAMNIT, KENJI. -written sometime around 09-10-

Years later I now can't help but laugh my ass off around that blind sap.
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby Goldilurks » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:16 am

I LIEK.

Thank you, El Jay. I was looking forward to this.

Praise
I really like the strip, and there are several things that stand out.
  • The panel layout is spot-on. As you might have noticed from my comments, this was one of my bigger concerns (bad layout can ruin a comment) and you've handled it masterfully.
  • I really like the little details - the glasses on the nightstand, for example, were a good touch. You've also managed to make Shizune look genuinely older - the length of the hair, the slight wrinkle under the eyes, and hell even the sag of the breasts create this effect.
  • Shizune's expression in the second panel is spot-on perfect.

Differences
There were a few areas where you came up with something different than what I originally had in mind. This is not a bad thing, just letting you know how it changed. These things never stay static from script to drawing anyways.
  • I envisioned Shizune's face as a bit more shocked in the first panel, with mouth and eyes open a little wider. Kinda like waking out of a nightmare. Now you don't have to adjust it necessarily; a lot of that effect will depend on how you color and/or shade that panel. And there's no need to view Shicchan as the type who overacts her shock anyways.
  • You took a three-quarters perspective on the room in the second panel. I was actually thinking a perspective parallel with the floor for this one, but I find I like your viewpoint anyways.

Points of Improvement?
  • Shizune's head size to torso size proportions seem a bit off in the second panel. They look perfect in the first, if you want a comparison. That MIGHT be because we can't see her full torso under the bedsheets, so take this criticism with a grain of salt.
  • Ditto the angles of the night table, as well as its proportion of distance to the bed. Just looks a little Picasso to me.

To Answer Your Questions
  • Fan consensus seems to demand that Shizune be Ms. Nakai. My comics are all standalones, so go ahead and put him in if you want. They could all be Ms. Nakai in alternate timelines from how I'm writing it.
  • Hell yes on the Misha bear hair. :P Yay for injokes!

I hope this feedback is useful, and thank you so much for the drawup!
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From Shizune's Perspective: a fanfic
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Re: Katawa Haha

Postby El Jay » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:38 pm

Goldilurks wrote:I LIEK.

Thank you, El Jay. I was looking forward to this.

[lol lets keep this thing from becoming XBOX HUEG]

I hope this feedback is useful, and thank you so much for the drawup!


Well I'm glad I didn't absolutely bomb on this. XD And thanks for the little input on some issues. I know a few parts are a bit iffy, and I chalk it up to working from midnight to 4:30 in the morning, but grain of salt tossed into the critique as advised. I can touch a few things up though, like most artists and art teachers tell you, outside opinion really gives you insight on what you can't see you're messing up on. The night-stand and such, I'm going to go into Gimp and just use the key-combo for straight lines. Now, first panel, I actually had Shizune's face a bit more... fresh out of a nightmare, in a word, but I didn't feel quite right about it. Now though, I could easily go back and fix it, wasn't entirely happy with the outcome of that expression, myself.

In short, yaaaaay commentary. Yaaaay. 8)
GOD DAMNIT, KENJI. -written sometime around 09-10-

Years later I now can't help but laugh my ass off around that blind sap.
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